The same can be said in reverse for Japanese people on how they see the Western world: Do they assume the USA is like Hollywood or the UK being like British Television? They perhaps assume that all Americans live in a large home with a white picket fence depicting a nuclear family as if its 1950.
All they talk about US is California or New York since most movies and TV shows use either as their main setting. Is the US in real life similar to Hollywood (everyone having a nice car, big home & white picket fence)? That’s the kind of response from non-Japanese assuming Japan is like anime.
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This is barely related but I just remembered one day in Amsterdam when I turned round and saw the waiter we’d just ordered pancakes from out the front of the restaurant sobbing into the phone. The image stuck with me and I wondered quite a bit about what that conversation could have been about.
Trying desperately to make this relevant… I guess that would be enough to shatter any romantic image about a place, not that I really had any about Amsterdam…
Exoticism.
Having been to Asia (Japan, Korea, and the Philippines) they do it with us too.
If you only have contact with a culture by its media, it’s easy to think of them as something exotic when the truth is people are people no matter where you go.
The same can be said in reverse for Japanese people on how they see the Western world
As a frequent anime watcher, manga reader and article-on-foreign-countries-reader, Japan has a lot of cool shit. Easy to romantisize if you’re the uncritical type, though personally I think Japanese society is pretty fucked up in a lot of ways.
Because the Japanese government has invested in spreading that image of Japan specifically:
Kawaii: Anime, Propaganda, and Soft Power Politics
A nation’s government is involved in its exports, including media. Conscious, intentional choices are made about which media is exported, some media are subsidized by the government to help them spread further, and some are produced directly at the government’s direction for the sake of export. This is often done under the guise of an arts program, but by putting their finger on the scale the government adjusts the image which they present to the rest of the world.
The projection of Japan being like anime is a choice that has been made fairly consistently for the past 30 years, or rather a whole laundry list of choices, a policy of crafted international presentation.
Some anime also seem to be sponsored by some tourist board (probably mostly aimed at a domestic audience), e.g. all the slice of life hiking animes.
And Zombieland Saga. Iirc they got money from Saga prefecture
For what it’s worth when I went to Japan I did think “man, people who are really into anime would love this”. Especially Tokyo and Kyoto.
There was anime stuff everywhere in Tokyo and I saw some really interesting temples and stuff in Kyoto.
Westerner who has been multiple times, and spent months on end there. It’s felt like Mecca for me personally due to my hobby and nature interests. I also greatly appreciate the cleanliness, hygiene, and adherence to societal and social expectations. I understand some consider those aspects stifling, however I do not.
This being said, I don’t have a desire to become a permanent resident at any point. I just want to vacation there indefinitely.
EDIT: Their public transportation systems are also pretty killer.
I just want to vacation indefinitely.
A lot of US cities are like actual Hollywood (the city). Trashy.
Having been to France/Paris a few times, the first few times weren’t too great. However, I went again later on with my wife who was able to explain the proper etiquette and unspoken social rules and the experience was completely different to the point where I loved it.
Many tourists won’t understand those rules, so they may come off as rude. But even a little effort will go a long way. Just a few things I can think of at the moment:
- Always say “Bonjour” when entering any shop, even if no one is visible at first.
- When talking to anyone, don’t start talking in English, first try to get by with whatever French you know (even if it’s terrible).
- For escalators, never block the left side. The right side is for standing, the left side is for those who might be in a hurry and will be walking through.
- On public transit, don’t be loud/bothersome. No talking on the phone. Don’t put your phone on speaker when listening to videos/media. If you have to talk, whisper.
I’ve been to France a couple of times, Paris once.
- I didn’t say “bonjour” when entering shops and it didn’t seem to matter. Basically the only shops I went in were bakeries with queues so that would’ve been weird I guess.
- We did attempt to speak French. Everyone had enough high school French that we knew “je voudrais”, numbers, and enough to point
- I don’t remember specifically needing to stand on one side of escalators but it’s easy enough to copy what everyone else is doing
- Being loud on public transport is rude everywhere IMO
But it’s not like there were people going around telling people off for not abiding by rules, or people getting frosty looks everywhere. Honestly, only a minority of time was actually interacting with people - most of the time was:
- admiring art
- eating food
All this to say, I think that there’s a lot more to disappointment with a trip to Paris than just getting etiquette wrong, and relating this to Japanese tourists, I would expect most to pick up on some obvious but unwritten rules quite quickly.
Well, the latter two points would be good advice for American tourists in Europe anywhere.
I really don’t need to hear what you’re saying from 100 metres away.
Yeah but it seems to get worse with time. I keep encountering people blasting instagram reels or similar stuff in public transit, and they are not tourists.
I had a great time the first (and only) time I went to france. I’m about to sound like I keep a gas canister full of my own farts to breathe deeply from, but, I’m not like other tourists. I don’t give a shit about the tourist attractions of the place I’m visiting; if they happen to be functionally interesting at the time I’m visiting, great! I’ll go do them. If not, why fucking bother? An example of one I tried (and failed) to do would be to see the Van Gogh museum.
Anyway.
The key was that I didn’t go to visit france; I went to visit my friend from university, who is french and lived in Lyon. I stayed at his place, and the idea was “hey, I came to visit you, but if we do some french stuff, that would be awesome”. Ok. I went to his friend’s birthday BBQ, went to his friend’s metal rehearsal, we had some great garlic sausage, we went to play petanque in a pub/bar, I got to see the center of town and eat the best ice cream I ever had (lychee sorbet) and I am very disappointed to say, failed to do the one fucking touristy thing I wanted to do : frogs legs and snails.
You know why?
I ended up seeing the greatest gig of my fucking life instead. It wasn’t even an explicitly french band, it was Secret Chiefs 3, who are based in the USA, and led by Trey Spruance of Mr Bungle fame. But fuckin’ BOY oh BOY the Lyon crowd was fucking BUMPIN. This might not be impressive to you that lead lives that aren’t a complete sausage carnival, but I actually got to dance with women at the gig.
Those of you who are interested in death metal or progressive music probably understand. For the others , the number of women at these shows can be counted on the hand of a person with no fingers.
Also, you guys should check out FAT32 if you’re into weird shit. I think Master Boot Record is kinda internet famous, they’re like that but from france and about a decade before them. If you don’t know MBR either, fuck it, They’re like Fantomas but french and from a similar timeframe. If you don’t know Fantomas, then fucking Igorrr. You don’t know Igorrr? Fuck it , it’s metal with keyboards and sound effects.
Anyway.
That gig was fucking fantastic. Well worth never eating snails and frogs legs. I think I tooled around in his place a bit before going to a bakery on the last day. I got treated well, because I followed the rule indicated by Mx NotAnotherLemmyUser : learn the fucking language of the place you’re going for fucks sake.
I used my phrasebook tier french and pointing and grunting to get a few nice pastries and accidentally, one which was a danish covered in tuna. It was horrendous.
I took the train to paris and the bus back to england. I saw the Eiffel tower. From the bus, on my way back, from very, very far away. I didn’t see the lourve. I didn’t champs the elysee.
I spent time with my friend, in person, for the last time.
Worth every missed opportunity.
Great write up, but hey why “for the last time”? :(
Because he lives in Lyon and I live in LatAm.
This is poetry.
Thank you
I mean, the first time I went to Japan (and again after I moved there) I was surprised how much it looked like it did in anime. Unlike most American cartoons, anime draws heavy inspiration from real-life settings, either generally or by literally copying real places almost exactly (there were places in Tokyo I stumbled across and went “wait this actually exists?!”). Furthermore a lot of the daily minutia commonly depicted in anime is true to life: late-night walks to the convenience store, kids biking to school, exhausted salarymen taking the last train, housewives gossiping on the streetcorner, strangely perky cashiers… Also anime usually shows families living in pretty standard housing, and many are set in cheap studio apartments that are quite accurate. They often show how over-worked and despairing both students and working adults are. They often incorporate hot-button issues, like bullying, the high suicide rate, and rural depopulation, that are usually at least generally accurate.
I guess I’m not sure what you’re getting at specifically. Yes anime is disproportionately set in Tokyo, but Japan as a whole is disproportionately focused around Tokyo (culturally, economically, and physically, since the Kanto plain is one of the only flat areas large enough to handle urban sprawl), and it’s not like other places are never featured (often the non-Tokyo setting is a major element of the story). Compared to American TV/movies/cartoons, I’ve found Japanese media to be quite true to life.
there were places in Tokyo I stumbled across and went “wait this actually exists?!”
I had that after playing Far Cry 6 and then looking at pictures of Cuba. lol – places I had thought were purely fictional suddenly showed up in real photos, just how I remembered them looking in the game.
Because that is all we know. You can’t expect people to know things they just don’t and your not going to really get it from some dry text. You either need to see it in an extended stay kind of way or have media that shows it well. Even then media can only show a slice of life. Rosanne was a big deal as was all in the family before it for showing closer to real life. But there are all kinds of lives.
they see it as a “utopia” that isnt the west. but in reality asia has pretty repressive laws, and restrictions, like with immigration unless your a rich foreigner. alot of westerners goes there and assume the “western customs apply there too” westerners, white ones do alot. i think alot of them live there, but the strange thing is asians love to have foreigners(white/westerners) as part of the propaganda for internal audiences. its a wierd thing amongst asian countries.
they romantacize India alot too, but most people will tell you its a underdeveloped and dirty in most places outside the capitals. other than the megadiversity areas(naitonal parks) where its beautiful, its usually on accessible to plants, animals,etc researchers.
For the Europeans that I’ve met (who have never been to the US) to them, most Americans are rich businessmen/cowboys who love guns.
Since they haven’t travelled, they mostly rely on what they see from the media that they consume.
I’ll yee-haw to that, pardner.
Bang, bang!And thats just the school entrance exam
Do they assume the USA is like Hollywood […]? They perhaps assume that all Americans live in a large home with a white picket fence depicting a nuclear family as if its 1950.
Yes.
I keep an album on my phone of photos of “daily life” things for when I travel internationally. Some external and internal shots of my home. My city’s downtown area. The crowd at a college football game. House party guests playing flippy cup with red Solo cups. Grocery store staples w prices showing. Always a good conversation starter.
Escapism, probably. We also get some people are are not well-adjusted adults who come over here in search of some fantasy. They tend to get a wake-up call and leave or
After a decade here, I’ve seen plenty of good and bad. However, given the black company bullshit employers like to pull, and increasing blame and requirements on foreign residents, I’m actively looking to get out.
