But you better vote for centrist genocider corporatists (who hate you) in the next election, or the centrist commenters on lemmy will NEVER FORGIVE YOU.
*eyeroll
I mean, yeah, until the revolution is televised you can only choose the least evil.
And the margin between greatest and least evil will continue to narrow.
Yet it is still prudent to vote for the least one.
Not if the centrists can yank endorsements from popular progressives. It, worse still, actively collaborate with fascists to remove them.
Choosing between Hitler and Himmler is no choice
Sorry but calling Republicans and Democrats Hitler and Himmler is not reflective of reality and honestly pretty deranged. There is a choice, and it’s clear which is more damaging.
calling Republicans and Democrats Hitler and Himmler is not reflective of reality
When to parties endorse the same Holocaust? What other parallel am I supposed to draw?
Maybe Naftali Bennett and Benjamin Netanyahu?
There is a choice, and it’s clear which is more damaging.
The difference between conservative Republicans and liberal Democrats is that Democrats are “civil” to Republican elites and Republicans don’t return the favor.
For everyone else, it’s the same boot on your neck. The same wars overseas. The same prisons at home. The same police getting another big pay increase to harass homeless people. The same bailouts for banks and the tech sector.
Dems couldn’t even close the torture prison at Guantanamo Bay. They just had to keep brutalizing people, indefinitely.
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Until centrists get their way and there is no margin.
okay well when both sides are literally exactly the same, then we can protest vote
Have fun chasing fascists to the right until then.
of course fascists go to the right, what kind of nonsense is that? Democrats are still the best option
I am somehow directly responsible for the defeat of every moderate chump, but utterly superfluous to every victory
Because of America’s two-party system, your only options are to:
A) vote for your preferred candidate in the primary, but against a candidate in the general election.
B) stay at home, tacitly supporting whatever the election outcome is.
vote for your preferred candidate in the primary
Except the “lesser” evil party doesn’t hold honest primaries, if they bother to hold them at all.
I’ve got a bunch of people I know who told me “I voted for Trump during the primary in order to sabotage the Republicans”.
When I asked why they didn’t just back a stronger Democrat, most thought Dems already had their person picked out so their primary vote didn’t matter.
Kind of horrifying that this is the state of the “pro-Democracy” party’s internal selection process.
I would argue that’s a gross over-simplification, and put forward the members of The Squad, Mamdami and the above-mentioned Minneapolis candidate winning their respect primaries as proof.
Of course, the monied interests who have established a hold on the Dem party will fight dirty to try and oppose - but this should be expected from any opponent, because if they didn’t - the Reps would definitely do so.
It actually can even work in their favour politically if they can weather the storm early, as the impact of counter-messaging gets blunted over time.
You just need to remember it’s always going to be a battle of four boxes; the soap box, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box.
I would argue that’s a gross over-simplification, and put forward the members of The Squad, Mamdami and the above-mentioned Minneapolis candidate winning their respect primaries as proof.
And I’ll counter with squad members Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, who the party didn’t protect, even though it “protects incumbents” when they’re shitheels like Coathanger Cuellar. The party is still trying to ratfuck Mamdani and Fateh.
Of course, the monied interests who have established a hold on the Dem party will fight dirty to try and oppose - but this should be expected from any opponent, because if they didn’t - the Reps would definitely do so.
Loving the double standard here. Progressives are obligated to shut the fuck up and pretend they love genocide as much as every last centrist always has and always will, but when a progressive wins their primary, centrists go from “no matter who” back to “party unity my ass.” The party is doing republicans’ work for them, and gladly. They prefer republicans to progressives. All centrists do.
You just need to remember it’s always going to be a battle of four boxes
That’s a cool line. But when you see who liberal Dems are battling in favor of…
A) vote for your preferred candidate in the primary
this is the fucking ticket. get rid of the fucking corpocrats before they get rid of your preferred candidates.
People who unironically belive that you can create real change by “voting harder” are the same people who think you can climb the economic ladder by “pulling yourself by the bootstrings”
You have to pull every lever of power or cede it to your enemies. Elections, media, violence, strikes, money, knowledge, power, everything.
Democrats agree with republicans on too many thing and will happily cede all of those things to them if they share a goal. That said, there’s a reason republicans are trying to rig elections.
You have to pull every lever of power
Which lever of power involves attacking transgender people in order to win Liz Cheney’s vote?
or bomb countries into democracy
I think you can leverage votes for change, but that also requires somebody negotiating with Democrats like a union boss.
Probably a good idea to really start putting together a platform for 3rd party candidates right now. I’ve seen ads for a few people running for the midterms and they are definitely not getting started too early.
A 3rd party candidate with enough name recognition could be a good bargaining chip to light a fire and finally scare Dems out of complacency. If not, they’re probably beyond redemption and should be replaced anyway.
That’s how the fringe voters of the right became the modern Republican party’s base. Think about what you could actually achieve when your shared goal is to progress society towards a more equal and just future rather than to micromanage it back to the dark ages.
The guy is still running and the people can still vote for him. I’m not even sure that this endorsement is that necessary for this position:
The party hadn’t endorsed a mayoral candidate in 16 years prior to backing Fateh.
Whatever the feelings about the DFL and how they handled it, the power of the vote would seem to be intact. It’s a bit premature to be fatalistic about voting in this particular scenario.
The Democrats who are refusing to respect “blue no matter who” as they support Cuomo anyway is worthy of criticism, but even then Mamdani is still the official candidate and the people can vote. The Cuomo supporters are acting poorly, but again, the vote at least still matters.
Raise awareness as well about these moves, but don’t be dismissive of the voting.
Voting for Cuomo is literally worse than doing nothing and not voting at all in terms of defending this democracy.
I meant Mamdani is the official candidate.
You make some good points, but you can believe that voting isn’t really going to change much but also practice harm reduction by voting. The two positions aren’t mutually exclusive.
I don’t believe for a second the ruling class would allow real change to happen through voting, but going into a voting booth once every couple of years is not that difficult and might keep actual fascists out of office.
If voting could change things, it would be illegal.
idk if you know about this but there is a very long history of the establishment trying to make it harder to vote, so yeah I guess voting works
Soon, in the U. S . it will be illegal
strange, the assholes voting for trump sure changed things.
Um, newsflash, things were already well on their way way before Trump.
oh so I have to enumerate for you everything wretched fucking thing you haven’t paid attention to for the last 9 months huh?
get fucked.
We need a true leftist workers party so bad in America. Democrats are center right.
id say some Dems are dinos, are just moderate right , because they wouldnt be able to get elected without siding with the magat crazies.
No, this doesn’t explain why Dems will frequently refuse to adjust the party platform to something not just the average Democrat wants but the average person in general in the US wants.
Democrats also REFUSE to get out ahead of the public opinion and advocate for lesser known issues or perspectives that are righteous but need a leader with a spine to stump for them. Democrat politicians largely refuse to treat their job like they have the agency and voice to move the american people and the consequences are heartbreaking and existential.
the dems are a uniparty, dems arnt really that seperated fromt he gop, they do backdoor deals the public doesnt see, push a little culture war here and there, to divide the base.
In Europe, most "worker’s " parties have become center with a tiny dash of left for “color”. The sad thing is that real left parties are musty old “real” socialism parties, either populist or tankies.
What we need is a “fourth way” of politics, a system that makes billionaires impossible, that fosters public services, including housing, cares for the needy, etc, but also promotes entrepreneurship, taxes progressively, guards society against the excesses of capitalism, etc.
Planned economies defininitely don’t work.
Tell that to China, with their 5 year plans. Capitalism is also not the way to move forward - it heavily promotes inequality and strife in the world.
Caring for the needy isn’t charity, it’s making sure they aren’t needy. Promoting entrepreneurship isn’t companies popping up left and right doing Uber but for dogs kind of idea, it’s solving the world’s biggest problems with new ideas.
You can’t guard society against the excesses of capitalism because capitalism promotes corruption, artificial scarcity, and waste of resources by design.
With this being said, to change how the western world acts we must recognize that the party system exists to sustain itself and we won’t have real change if we don’t change it for power to be given to real people and not career politicians (or build guillotines)
What we need is some way to have all our groceries in one bag, but that bag isn’t heavy.
What we need is a “fourth way” of politics, a system that makes billionaires impossible, that fosters public services, including housing, cares for the needy, etc, but also promotes entrepreneurship, taxes progressively, guards society against the excesses of capitalism, etc.
Oh, you mean, social liberalism?
Social liberalism: Social liberal parties stress civil and human rights and favour a social market economy.
Or the New Deal democrats of the Great Society reforms?
The Great Society sought to build on the legacy of former President Franklin D. Roosevelt’s New Deal reforms of the 1930s, and planned to use the power of the federal government in order to address economic inequality, improve education and healthcare, and promote civil rights.
There’s that word people on here hate again: liberal. You guys are reinventing positions from willfully forgotten history of liberals & the Democratic party.
The Democratic Party is a honey pot trap used to attract and neutralize progressive and leftist politicians and policies and ensure that the “Overton Window” of American politics never moves left. They will let you “talk” about universal healthcare, for example, but they will never, EVER allow it to move forward as a serious legislative agenda.
Never forget that Obama had two whole years of a significant Democratic majority in both Congress AND Senate, and still somehow couldn’t muster the cojones to pass anything even close to the socialised healthcare he’d campaigned on and had a huge popular mandate for.
Someone please explain why it is that when Republicans are the minority they have the ability to block absolutely everything the ruling party attempts, and yet when the Democrats are in opposition suddenly somehow it’s impossible for them to do anything?
They simply don’t want to.
Once it can happen, when it’s a pattern happening their entire history it should be obvious.
The game is R: 5 steps right, D: 1 step left. But apparently americans can’t see it.
Totally their own fault.
it’s a running joke, especially now.
The game format inevitably results in a far-right stage eventually.
And yet they cry crocodile tears and are confused how they ended up there.Obama actually ran on the heritage foundation Romney care plan. It was Hillary Clinton during the 2008 primary that actually ran on a public option.
It was Hillary Clinton during the 2008 primary that actually ran on a public option.
Liar. Obama ran on a public option and no individual mandate. Clinton ran on no public option and an individual mandate.
Centrists are allergic to telling the truth.
I looked it up and you are right, it was on his website he just didn’t openly push it as much. I remembered a speech he specifically said he did not run on the public option. 17 years ago, I went from memory, my bad. I was actually supporting Obama over Hillary back then. Not sure why that immediately made me a centrist liar. You seem kind of intense.
I remembered a speech he specifically said he did not run on the public option.
Yeah, that was gaslighting after it became clear that the public option was always a bill of goods designed to be jettisoned as quickly as possible.
You seem kind of intense.
Yeah, 17 years of lies from Clinton supporters and being blamed every time centrism either fails to win or succeeds in blocking their own campaign promises will do that. I didn’t see someone who was mistaken; I saw someone who was trying to pretend that Clinton was even slightly progressive by attributing policy to her that her wing of the party killed.
I only brought it up because too many people remember Obama as better than the heritage foundation capitulating fake lefty he was. I thought I was making a point he was more to the right than Hillary who gets more readily pegged as a center right hawk. Oh well.
If her performance in 2016 is any indication, if she had beaten Obama, she would have considered her job done.
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no corroborating sources when linking them would have been trivial
You settled nothing. Why should anyone take anyone’s word on here for it?
I am under no obligation to prove that the sky is blue to someone who will hear all my patient explanations of Rayleigh scattering and just be like “nope. red.”
They had debates. They’re still out there. Just pick one. Maybe the ABC one where it was clear that George Stephanopolous was still the Clintons’ press secretary.
No one has to care about lazy words lacking substance of corroboration.
Again, you settled nothing besides showing lack of will to settle anything.
No one has to care about lazy words lacking substance of corroboration.
Like your idiotic and ridiculous lie that Clinton supported the public option and Obama didn’t. You never even attempted to back that up. Yet somehow I have to entertain your deliberate attempts to waste my time by demanding news articles from 16 years ago that you already intend to dismiss without reading.
He didn’t pass that either, though, only a massively watered-down version of it packed with every compromise the Republicans demanded, to make sure that the healthcare companies still got to keep over 15% of households in medical debt.
Socialized healthcare was filibustered by every single republican, and in the 72 days they had supermajority WITH INDEPENDENTS one of which opposed public option, they passed the medicaid expansion which gave healthcare and in some cases dental to tens of millions of people. The time period you’re talking about was also the most productive congress on record since the mid 20th century.
Can always count on finitebanjo to bring the excuses.
So damn impress how they’re always so confident in being wrong
Actively impressive how they are so smug and cocksure but constantly wrong on everythig they believe, the neoliberal way.
still somehow couldn’t muster the cojones to pass anything even close to the socialised healthcare
You guys are really trash at recalling or just looking up recent history. Many of us were there when it happened. We remember how it went down.
Too many conservative, pro-life Democrats were against anything better, and they had barely enough Democrats to squeeze through procedural obstacles (filibusters) in the Senate. A number of them voted against the bill that passed.
quotations
They chose this approach after concluding that filibuster-proof support in the Senate was not present for more progressive plans such as single-payer.
The holdouts came down to Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, an independent who caucused with Democrats, and conservative Nebraska Democrat Ben Nelson. Lieberman’s demand that the bill not include a public option was met, although supporters won various concessions, including allowing state-based public options such as Vermont’s failed Green Mountain Care. Many voted against the bill that passed: it barely got through.
The White House and Reid addressed Nelson’s concerns during a 13-hour negotiation with two concessions: a compromise on abortion, modifying the language of the bill “to give states the right to prohibit coverage of abortion within their own insurance exchanges”
On December 23, the Senate voted 60–39 to end debate on the bill: a cloture vote to end the filibuster. The bill then passed, also 60–39, on December 24, 2009, with all Democrats and two independents voting for it
Then at reconciliation of House & Senate bills for passage
The remaining obstacle was a pivotal group of pro-life Democrats led by Bart Stupak who were initially reluctant to support the bill.
The House passed the Senate bill with a 219–212 vote on March 21, 2010, with 34 Democrats and all 178 Republicans voting against it.
Someone please explain why
Because Democrats & leftists are better at infighting than setting aside differences to win.
Because Democrats & leftists are better at infighting than setting aside differences to win.
There’s no infighting as Democrats aren’t on the left, they’re center right.
You’re confirming the point just made.
Please prove the Democrats are on the left, and I’ll recined my point.
Leftism is the pursuit of social equality and egalitarianism.
Democrats are social liberals.
Social liberalism: Social liberal parties stress civil and human rights and favour a social market economy.
Refer to social market reforms & social programs from the New Deal (social security, security & exchange commission, labor relations, wealth redistribution, consumer protections, fair employment practices, public housing, minimum wage), their continuation & expansion of civil rights from Great Society (civil rights acts, voting rights act, war on poverty antipoverty programs, medicare, medicaid, welfare, social security expansion, education programs), more recent market regulations, health care expansions, consumer protections (eg, Dodd–Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, Affordable Care Act). This is a clear record of reforms to address social & economic inequality, improve education & healthcare, promote civil rights, regulate markets.
In terms of political spectrum
Generally, the left wing is characterized by an emphasis on “ideas such as freedom, equality, fraternity, rights, progress, reform and internationalism” while the right wing is characterized by an emphasis on “notions such as authority, hierarchy, order, duty, tradition, reaction and nationalism”.
Political scientists and other analysts usually regard the left as including anarchists, communists, socialists, democratic socialists, social democrats, left-libertarians, progressives, and social liberals.
The Democratic party is made up of factions with the center-left & left caucuses dominating: it tends left.
Claiming Democrats aren’t left (if impure) requires a level of delusion that outright denies basic definitions of left & political classifications, historical record, and usual knowledge of political scientists & analysts.
All the left wanted in the last election is for Harris to say the zionists were conducting a genocide. Thats it. Its a trivial ask. And then she would have won. But “centrist” dems couldnt even give the left that tiny speck of a fig leaf. But sure blame both the left and the centrists equally if that makes you feel righteous.
Asking to not spend money on genocide is just too hard of an ask, apparently.
Clearly it’s not working because despite progressive stances being a wide majority we haven’t elected more than 48 DNC since 2013.
Citizens United essentially put the electoral system up for corporate sale. By 2013 it was fully in effect.
See I think that kind of defeatist logic is the trap - they flood the internet with pessimism and “there’s no point in trying” and “there’s no point in voting” to make sure YOU don’t try. To make sure all you do is sit on your ass at home and complain on the internet.
The only way to change America is to remove billionaires from existing. As long as they hold all the power, nothing will get better significantly.
Alright so what are YOU going to do to help make that happen?
I never said any of that shit. The point is that, tactically speaking, we should be dealing with them as they are, and not giving them the benefit of the doubt, assuming they are on our side and operating in good faith, like the tired meme of Lucy pulling the football away from Charlie Brown.
The threat is existential, and there should be qualifying and disqualifying criteria, and that criteria should be set by US, not some party dignitaries, not some fucking “consultants” who are getting money from billionaire funded PAC’s and think tanks.
That’s not defeatist.
Defeatism is deciding now, over 3 years before the next election and 15 months before midterms, that there’s no way you get someone elected who actually represents you, so you should just suck it up and vote for Kodos.
(((they)))
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Lol. “I’m not a Nazi! I blame all our problems on a secret mass conspiracy and infiltration of our society by a completely different race!”
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Yeah yeah, tell us more about how the Judeo-Bolshivik’s are harvesting adrenochrome under Comet Pizzaria. Sure love Nazi conspiracy theories in my “progressive” com
“Start small at the local level” centrists said, suppressing laughter.
“Local level is where real change starts. We never said we’d let it start.”
It’s the money. Campaigns are increasingly expensive by design. That and Citizens United basically made it so moneyed interests never have to worry about grassroots ever again. That’s (very tangentially) why the internet is also getting so unpleasant, I think, to poison the discourse. If people were nice to each other all the time, we’d band together more easily. Paid trolls exist for a reason.
Social media has been flooded by propaganda bots for a while. Also its the old-guard dems were fighting, they are the ones that are colluding with the gop to an extent, both of them needs the same donors, so they cant have every issued fixed, they need to string along the voting base.
Kamala Harris out raised Trump. That’s why she’s now the president.
Only if you don’t count Elon Musk buying Twitter and China using TikTok to promote and endorse Trump. If you really add up all of the costs to endorse candidates and not just campaign contributions, Trump probably wins by a margin of hundreds of billions.
🪤
On reddit, for my criticism of the Democratic Party, I am often censored on liberal spaces besides r/50501.
I follow the rules always, I cite sources, I am polite, and I am a US citizen. I am not influenced by Russian propaganda (to the best of my knowledge), and I’d like to say I have decent stances; I advocate for nonviolence and human rights, and generally advocate for progress and civility.
The “trolls” (I do my best to always assume good faith) here have nowhere near as much power here on the fediverse as on reddit.
On reddit, once you block someone, it shuts down discussion completely. Users there strategically block after their first rebuttal to prevent any of your responses from showing up and to gain the last word. I often waste time researching and typing a response, only to find out I was blocked and my response is only showing up for me. The only way to get around this is to edit your comments from before they blocked you, and it is very awkward (and usually results in lots of downvotes when you can’t properly respond to someone calling you a Russian troll).
If OP blocks you, you get kicked from the thread completely. You can neither see the thread after that point, nor respond to anyone else. Even your comments on the thread are invisible on your user profile (so unless you do voodoo and find the comment permalink, it’s difficult to edit your comment with a response).
Mods also abuse automod to trick you into thinking your posts or comments are showing up for others (like setting it to remove everything for a specific user). They do this to avoid accountability when they can’t easily explain what rule you broke or when mods censor based on ideological grounds. I also get censored automatically by automod often and find that my posts or comments don’t show up randomly - presumably I hit automod filters, but I still worry every single time that my account is shadowbanned.
If automod and the blocking functionality isn’t abused, any divergent opinion or perspective gets completely buried by downvotes. Like me pointing out how rigged things are for progressives (it’s hard for me to stomach people acting like the Democrats need to move right because progressive policies are “extremely unpopular”).
Anyway, moderation has been very fair here to me, I just want others to know that reddit is completely busted for healthy discourse and some of the tricks users and mods use to create echo chambers.
any of the news subreddits, adjacent to the main one is very dicey to talk about. and any politics you have to walk on eggshells. there are ways around a blocked person, but it involves making new account to do it. ive blocked someone, and they decided to use another account and complain on the same thread about being blocked.(this prior to the purges of reddit). if you try to report the person, you could be targeted with a ban for “report abuse”
I was warned for reporting (what I view as) legitimate violations of subreddit rules and calls to violence by reddit themselves. I was conditioned to not report abuse.
Add in reddit actioning accounts for upvoting certain content, and it’s easy to see that healthy participation on the website is severely chilled, in addition to the website generally being hostile to discourse.
Aaron Swartz is rolling in his grave, reddit is nothing like what it was founded on.
same here, apparently the politics sub will take it more harshely, what you view is legitmate may not what the mods see. it seems they dont like when you are reporting a comment you did not engage in
It’s a lot of energy to invest in a discourse that is being oppositionally refereed. Under better circumstances I’d say it was laudable, and on Lemmy the effort is certainly less wasted, but I’m starting to wonder if maybe the better part of our energies are better spent on in-person political efforts.
I agree - I struggle a lot with my health, but there has to be something I can do in-person. Our direction needs to change as a society.
The problem is that you really can’t criticize the DNC without inadvertently endorsing the GOP. It’s a fact of life in a two party system.
What are you talking about?
I can criticize the DNC, RNC, Dems, and GOP.
I can endorse the Democratic Socialists of America (DSA) and their DSA National Convention they just held a week or so ago in Chicago.
You see the political spectrum like this:
Dems >---------------< GOP
I see the political spectrum like this:
Left >--------< Dems >--------< GOP
The Dems get hate from both sides, so they want to collapse that by disrepresenting the Left and absorbing the Right. It will never work out for them
He’s too far right to understand anything like this. His alt on piefed.world has defended racist institutions and thinks if you call out liberals doing bad policies, you’re a Tankie.
He’s a dumbass who thinks he knows better.
I’m supremely happy to see you pissed off tankies getting this mad. May your glorious leader someday have an aneurysm.
No leaders in anarchism, dingus.
You’re not fooling anybody, you only oppose western powers.
The most third party senators we’ve ever had was 4, right before the GOP swept every chamber in 2024 and before that in 1941.
We currently have ZERO third party reps in the House. Not a single one.
If you’re going to shit on dems then it is imperative that you shit on the GOP harder because if we turn people away from the DNC there is NOTHING left. We’re basically splitting our vote up while the Republicans fall in line.
I agree. That’s why all Democrats need to endorse current Independents so they can gain back their power, like Zohran Mamdani in New York and maybe Graham Platner in Maine.
But I’ve been seeing disappointing behaviors from the Dems with that lately. Not just in New York and Maine, but also in Minnesota with how the Dems revoked their endorsement of democratic socialist Omar Fateh. Pathetic.
Right so splitting the vote isn’t enough you want it to split even more so that the GOP gain supermajority. Makes sense.
We need a unified front to fight the fascists in office, and parading out the establishment Dems that caused this all to happen is not a winning strategy.
We need new blood that will draw in new voters. And we need to decide who that new blood is before the end of the year so they can start primarying in January.
That’s a convenient stance for people who love everything the DNC does and want to shut down all criticism.
Sure is useful that we can’t call out the people we are required to vote for.
Maybe if Democrats didn’t unquestionably ship weapons to a state exterminating an occupied people, I’d shut up and fall in line. Maybe.
Congratulations, you and people like you convinced 8 Million DNC voters to stay home in 2024, now Trump is president and a Fox News host with white supremacist tattoos is head of the DoD and pushing for the death or exodus of every single Palestinian, Israel put tanks on the ground in Gaza for the first time in two decades and started bombing Rafah with weapons that the DNC withheld previously. Blood is on your hands.
My impact was nil. Did you not read my post? I get censored and buried.
If you want someone to blame, look within, and tell the Democrats to do the same.
Running a rushed campaign with no substantive policies, tirelessly lying about tirelessly working for a ceasefire, appealing to the right, not holding primaries, pushing a senile, self-proclaimed Zionist (Biden) until the last minute (who supported the genocide unquestionably) surely didn’t have anything to do with the loss.
Point is, there are a lot more than 8 million untapped voters. 1/3 of the country doesn’t vote. Encourage Democrats to tap into that demographic, and pressure genocidal states just a little bit. It’d go a long way.
My impact was nil.
No, you don’t understand. Anyone who even thought something approaching an unkind thought toward netanyahu singlehandedly threw out every vote cast for harris.
If that helps you sleep at night.
Your source for that article cites the Israeli officials, who btw endorsed Trump.
Nine top Biden officials admit that there was no pressure.
I feel like it’s very optimistic of you to think that people suck balls on the Internet because they are paid and not because a lot of people are just generally shitty. I kinda hope you’re right even tho that equates to a rather dystopian present. But the more I meet people, the more I realize that people just kinda suck. Like there are some truly abhorrent people out there… and they’re multiplying lol.
Had a coworker harping on why its only right companies raise their prices if they can. People can just go somewhere else. Sure, bud. Not even gonna crack at all the shit wrong with that. Defending education is bearing its fruit in multitudes. I’ll see you in the precious metal mines.
It’s both. The ‘Trolls from Olgino’ (Internet Research Agency) definitely have been poisoning online debate for over a decade now. I’m old enough to remember that when people were mean on the internet, it used to be an attempt at punch-down humour. These days cruelty is a comedy-neutral norm. That, I contend, is manufactured.
Would be awesome to get a link to a news source as opposed to a Twitter screenshot.
Everyone knows the democrats will do this every time. “Vote blue no matter who” is a crock of shit and every single person who gives you shit for not voting for Harris and her shitty campaign that pandered to the right and Israel can be directed to party leadership’s behavior here and in New York
If they can run the risk of handing over mayorships to republicans because the “blue” candidate isn’t correctly blue then logically I can say I’m not going to back any genocide enabling, insider trading, corporate slaves who will sell out any marginalized group to keep their entrenched power (see newsoms pandering anti trans bullshit to charlie kirk).
“Vote blue no matter who” is a direct result of FPTP voting. Until that’s fixed, yeah keep voting blue…if there isn’t a more progressive candidate.
We need a viable third party and the time to start one was November 6, 2024. We’re past the point to make a dent in the midterms (assuming we have elections) but we have time to run progressive candidates.
The time to do something different always seems to be some other time than now.
Yep! Especially if the dogma is “3–4 years ahead of the next election” while having one every 2 years.
Building a party doesn’t mean aiming for victory right next election. It takes time. It will take a lot of time starting from now, or from next year.
The best time to start it was before xxx. The next best time is now.
You can always do something but its efficacy will vary. For example, spinning up a third party candidate a week before the election would be pointless.
If you look at my post history on Nov 5 has several posts on starting a third party. Right after the election would have been perfect. A lot of runway to find candidates, push them into the spotlight, have them lead the protests against Trump.
But we were understandably numb.
The second best time was after the inauguration. The third best time was after the first protest. The fourth best time was after the second protest.
We’re about 8 months before the first primary. We could start a third party after the Labor Day protests.
With me being out of work, I’ve given serious thought about starting one here locally.
We cannot vote our way out of this
Idk how many times the democrats need to prove this, but the DNC exists to protect capital interests against socialist policies and candidates.
This isn’t a problem with FPTP systems, its a problem of class conflict, and our whole fucking system was built with it in mind. Democrats will sooner partner with fascists to arrest progressive opposition than allow them to pull the country to the left of them.
It’s much less of a problem in PR systems.
There is no electoral system that can overcome a sufficiently organized and motivated capital class.
Are you suggesting we abolish democracy?
What democracy is there to abolish?
The one that they keep spending billions of dollars every year to influence, including spreading the myth that your vote doesn’t matter, to discourage voter participation.
I’m suggesting we abolish the capital class.
Alright that sounds awesome but is also super vague and leaves out all the important steps like the how and the when.
Exactly, it’s a voter problem. We have a ranked choice voting system in Australia with cumpolsory voting, same as everywhere, we mostly elect fools and asshats.
But then some some 2000 years ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses
Juvenal originally used it to decry the “selfishness” of common people and their neglect of wider concerns. The phrase implies a population’s erosion or ignorance of civic duty as a priority.
80% simply don’t really give a shit.
Susan Sontag was asked what she had learned from the Holocaust, and she said that 10% of any population is cruel, no matter what, and that 10% is merciful, no matter what, and that the remaining 80% could be moved in either direction” —Kurt Vonnegut
It’s not a voter problem, it’s a capitalism problem.
In a capitalist democracy, it’s capital that sets the rules for governance, not the other way around. You can have a social democracy, but you can’t undo capital in a capitalist democracy by voting.
You’re incredibly defeatist. You absolutely can, that’s why they keep spending so much money trying to influence our vote.
Australia uses IRV, not STV, which is basically just FPTP with a fancier ballot. And nobody else on the planet uses this for multi-seat legislative assemblies. Only Australia.
But if you’re advocating for increased educational funding so that voters aren’t idiots, I’m all for that, too.
The issue is that with ballot access laws, third parties have to have a ton of momentum. And Democrats systematically engage in lawfare to kick third parties and other individuals off the ballot - look it up, they fight anyone to the left of them with more cohesion than they fight Republicans or Trump.
Yup. I wanted to vote for the socialist candidate last election, and democrats sued her off the ballot.
That did not result in me voting for Harris, but it did convince me to refuse to vote for any down ballot democrats.
My party also had no candidate on the ballot because they were sued by the Dems. Not sure who they think they’re winning over with that.
Not sure who they think they’re winning over with that.
Their rich donors
That’s because their donors tell them who to fight, and it’s almost never the people to their right because Republicans don’t threaten the donors’ wealth.
They do now. Attempting to influence the federal reserve board isn’t good for the rich (or anyone else).
He’s trying to overheat the economy to get a gold star before it collapses.
I argue that the rich and powerful want another crash or collapse, otherwise why are the very rich, big corporations, and other institutions not doing anything to fight back against Trump’s policies?
The answer is obvious to me: fascism isn’t a threat to capitalism and there are historical parallels to support my assertion: https://youtu.be/7f_V9zZNzTY
Every single time there are economic problems, the rich get bailed out (or barely feel a hit) and are enabled to take more and more power, wealth, and influence while the 99% toil.
The rich’s game of capitalism only “collapses” if they want it to.
Most Democrats don’t want to fix FPTP because it keeps people voting for them. If a Democrat doesn’t explicitly oppose FPTP, then their actions say they support where we are right now.
We spend so much time yelling at internet people for not understanding the obvious logic of FPTP, yet give legislators the benefit of the doubt election after election. Yes they fucking know, it slapped everyone in the face in 2000.
There have been third parties for decades but they won’t become viable until after they have been not viable. This scale of coordination takes more than 4 years. The first person you know who will vote against FPTP is you.
Until that’s fixed, yeah keep voting blue…if there isn’t a more progressive candidate.
Except it goes out the window when the party isn’t able to keep progressives off the ballot.
Seriously, people… throwing out your best option because you want better one down the road…
It’s a strategy… I used it to protest the DNC in 2016… BUT IT REQUIRES YOU STILL HAVE A DEMOCRACY AND NOT A FASCIST DICTATORSHIP RUN BY AN INSURRECTIONIST. YOU FUCKED IT.
Who fucked it?
There are 2 sides of this. Why is it always “vote for me or else…” and never “propose a good platform for us or else…”?
Dems are actively trying to demolish the leading candidate in NY. They’re about to do the same thing in this case. But “it’s us of fascists”. You think you’ll have a better chance later? You won’t, that’s part of the playbook!
In France, Macron propped the far-right before his second term, so that on 2nd round of presidential elections (direct election in 2 rounds: 1st many candidates, 2nd only the 2 highest scores from the first), he would face the far right candidate, and then “vote for me or else…”.
This has to stop. They’re not naive and stupid, they know very very well what they’re doing: coercing you to vote for them.
I know what they are doing too. I also know what their opponents are doing, and understand that you need a functioning democracy to have any hope of a better candidate down the road. Maybe Hitler’s opposition sucked too but can you imagine they would have made things any worse?
There is no perfect strategy, everything is case by case, everything involves weighing pros and cons, and you are under-estimating the cons of an eternal fascist dictatorship under these pedophile-protecting/genocidal/theocratic/insurrectionist/anti-LGBTQ thugs by a massive degree when you think this will all be worth it at some point. Keep convincing yourself this is all just dem propaganda if it makes you feel better but this is fucking reality and it’s time to wake the fuck up.
Democrats weren’t offering a functioning democracy. They were offering a hostage situation in which they were threatening everyone with fascism if they didn’t vote for the genocidal shit they appointed without a primary.
You’re going straight to that permanent fascism today. Trump won. The Dems are disgusting a growing part of their voters base. If you were redoing elections today, I’m not even sure the outcome would be different. It would come down to who repels their voters the fastest.
How soft the Dems are with Trump is a mirror of what we see in France: the “centrists” are totally compatible with fascism! They can “work with that”. If not the actual politicians, their big donors, who are really setting the direction, will have no issue adapting to a dictatorship. They will play the us vs them game, but you get closer and closer to total fascism.
Re-electing the Dems as they are will not move you away from it. It will just make the journey longer.
Hitler’s opposition sucked too but can you imagine they would have made things any worse?
They literally appointed Hitler
We are all responsible, nobody is more responsible than somebody else. Compromising on politicians that don’t even come close to representing the American people is not going to win 2026 or 2028 and get us anything different than MAGA.
Yes, just like me on 2016. Still waiting on my wonderful 3rd party progressive candidate to take back America. Maybe once they start rounding up and deporting non-Republican Party members we’ll finally see someone come along?
Yes, let us take comfort in our delusions of the future while the world crumbles around us.
It’ll get me a world where I’m not actively hunted down for my sexuality or skin color, so that would be nice.
Yeah, so long as you win every election forever, while running increasingly unappealing candidates. Which is the strategy you tried, and it failed.
That’s not the strategy I tried.
Then what is?
Will they win though? Kamala cemented it in my head that Democrats appealing to centrists and old-school Republicans isn’t effective strategy.
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Your valid criticism is just purity testing to these people. I’m not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do, but there has to be a way to bridge the gap.
The system isn’t working at all here in America.
I’m not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do…
It’s because politics has become the new “religion” for most people. I grew up in a cult, and the amount of crossover in thinking is astonishing: “Our dear leaders couldn’t have done anything wrong, it has to be everyone else that is wrong!”
We are voting blue because the alternative is literal fascism as we’re experiencing here, we don’t have the political system set up for third-party voting, that begins at fucking HOME.
Get involved in your local governments and stop whinging about the federal elections. Your largely-ignored local and state elections are what gave all this mess the power it didn’t deserve.
I mean, there’s still a CHANCE to turn it around and restructure our government and our voting so we have actual choices, but right now, because everyone has been swayed or turned apathetic, we don’t have a viable means for voting for anyone that isn’t picked by the right or the further right.
Instead of shaming people for voting for Harris, we would do a lot better telling people who in their local states and cities need more support.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively. You want real results you get involved from the ground up. Otherwise you’re just displaying how much better you are for internet points.
edit: the fact that this is still getting kids butthurt out there encourages me, I WANT you to be mad. Get fucking MAD you hyper-sensitive dipshits. Then point it where it belongs and go outside and touch grass and get involved in your community, learn to socialize without being self-obsessed, stop feeling entitled to some kind of relief or absolution or validation, you’re exactly the same as MAGA if you’re sitting there mad that someone has criticism of your movement’s tactics or lack thereof. UNIFY.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame
The left has reached out to the dnc repeatedly and only ever gets its hand slapped and nasty name calling and temper tantrums as a reply-- like you just did. The left doesnt need to do a damned thing-- the centrists do. You know where our votes are. Come get em, or dont. I no longer care what you lot of diet fascist election losers do.
The fact that there are leftists who equate accountability and pointing out problems and criticism against the movement as “centrism” is pretty glaring proof that we have MAGA on both sides of this fetid horseshoe. I hope the next generation of kids growing up reading all this form better ideas. Or just burn the world down faster, our species deserves either.
The left needs to get its fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively.
So as one of those terminally online, over-educated, ‘dreamer’ leftists, I’m pretty tired of being vote-cucked in cycle after cycle by Democrat faithful and the DNC with “…but have you seen the Republican candidate?” messaging. I’m mad about the policy platform, but recognize the electoral games. You can convince me of the ‘lesser harm’ arguments, but that increasingly does not work with regular voters.
Voting is transactional, not aspirational. Reward voter’s loyalty with policies and governance that actually improves their lives, instead of protecting the Dow and NASDAQ. Someone who is struggling to pay for shelter and healthcare doesn’t give a flying fart about ‘muh institutions’ or ‘procedural issues’ they want results. They’ve been chided and goaded in past elections and didn’t see demonstrable improvements, but instead a widening wealth gap and decreased purchasing power amid windfall corporate profits.
right now, because everyone has been swayed or turned apathetic
Because this what the “vote blue no matter who” modality brings. Cynically wielding the right to ensure electoral compliance doesn’t work. Offering no real concrete policies or cross-party priorities like they used to doesn’t make people want to vote for you.
The party has shown its ass multiple times, and the electorate isn’t as stupid as the beltway folks think they are. Look at the ballot affiliation reports and see how cooked the party is, 4.5 million people said ‘nah they dgaf about me’
He said his worry is that all of these different kinds of voters feel like the Democratic Party left them. They “all shared the broader fact that they are working class and not feeling like we were talking to them or actually going to help them, so that needs to be fixed,” he said.
we would do a lot better telling people who in their local states and cities need more support.
I stand by this, you can harp and debate and pontificate about what has been done and why and who it effects and how, but at the end of the day if you’re not building your smaller politics, your larger politics will do things you don’t want.
Liberal voters are uninspired and bored and make shitty choices so people who DO care have to get more involved. Give them leadership, give them options, shoot enough talking points at the great propaganda barrier that some get through and strike a few comfortable liberals and median voters who get all their news from AM radio and podcasters.
Take the money out of the hands of the Democrats and this won’t be an issue in the future, this arm-folded harumphing of the Dem party forcing people into choices they don’t like isn’t going to change anything by itself either, this isn’t reaching the median voters or liberals either and can be easily weaponized to make out those dissatisfied as “unamerican” or “radicals.” We have to stop spending money on corporations (saving money, stop spending on frivolous bullshit and entertainment) and start investing actual energy and time into rebuilding communities and socializing. We desperately have to stop doing the same thing expecting different results. There’s a word for that.
edit: your weird pushback on these ideas tells me I need to antagonize you fucks even harder into getting mobilized.
I’d argue that organizing a nationwide vote of no confidence for our entire government is imperative instead of playing games with the Democrats who prop up fascism by alienating people who want to achieve progress.
There is no precedent, but being held hostage to a broken system and playing in a rigged game will get us nowhere without extremely radical campaign finance reform and voting/election reform.
You need money to win elections, progressives and leftists or left-leaning individuals can’t compete with big money.
organizing a nationwide vote of no confidence
Let me know how that goes.
I’ve been at this for decades. Leftists broadly are incapable of organizing on the level that draws in the numbers needed for change, it’s just performative clubhouse demonstrations and performative boycotts, everyone is too lost in their own heads. It’s sad and it sucks but it’s literally the same kind of self-entitlement that the right is suffering from but wrapped in different wallpaper.
The liberal middle-ish class is the blood-bank for the parties to try to continue to extract money from, and as long as this class is moderately comfortable and has food they are going to pour money into whoever catches their eye for a moment on federal electoral stages, largely tune out of local politics, and not have strong principles one way or another. If you can reach these people (without preaching or shaming them for like, enjoying Duck Tales and other bizarre leftist campaigns of shame and finger wagging) then you have a chance of turning the country, but I literally cannot see that happening with the general attitudes that have set in on the left. Nobody is taking any of this seriously. It’s horseshoe theory on despair-inducing display.
Let me know how that goes.
That’s the attitude. I think my suggestion has merit.
Let me know how many progressive individuals get elected after a few more decades of capital doing whatever it wants to crush any forward movement of our society (if we even have elections anymore).
The fresh water crisis will get us before anyone can achieve progress on any level if we keep letting the government (or what’s left of it) and elections be bought out by capital.
the alternative is literal fascism
What the Democrats were doing in Gaza was literal fascism.
The left needs to get it’s fart-huffing head out of its collective ass and stop trying to bicker and shame each other performatively.
Lol, hypocrite.
You know when it comes to mayoral races you don’t have to be subjected to two party rules? That shit is only problem in the big presidential races.
Come on folks do as Sanders said lets build a new party from the ground up. At least what we should have been doing since 2016. Instead they keep thinking we can fix the Democrats. Goddammit no wonder we are lost.
Isn’t it cool how the Dems and the Nazis get equal criticism on Lemmy?
I mean, it’s mostly valid, and yet…
I mean, it’s mostly valid, and yet…
Talks like nazis. Murders encampments full of innocents like nazis. Goes after antifa (anti-fascists) just like nazis. Increasingly makes you “show me your paperz! ze papers are not in order!!” like nazis. Beating citizens (schoolkids) for expressing opinions on politics that they dont like. checkmark, on that one.
If I recall my world history the Japanese said they attacked because the US was pursuing trade boycotts to limit Japans access to raw materials. And the Germans claimed the jewish congress were running a global boycott against german goods right as the depression was hitting, decimating the Weimar republic economy. Similar to tarriffs now. So check, check on those score too.
The nazis dresssed smarter and spoke german. Those are the big differences. So yes, Democrat-republicans are not exactly the same as nazis, but everything else lines up.
Not true! I attack actual fart-huffing leftists as well as democrats and nazis tyvm.
You attack anyone to your left, yes.
This is why Americans are my literal enemy for life. Worst fucking neighbours. Nothing you guys do is for the betterment of all.
So who did you vote for then?
Organized people best organized money.
Well
Not in this specific example it didn’t
But yeah
The city-chapter held their election in a very questionable manner and removed the third place from the running very early on, resulting in calls for either a refund of contributions or a complete redo.
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I’m bracing myself for downvotes / banning, but I’m posting (from Minneapolis) to provide some context.
A more extensive, contemporaneous description of the convention is here, and the NY Times article geneva_conveniencel later linked explains a bit more.
My understanding / the short version is that the convention was very disorganized / poorly run, and didn’t follow its own rules. Frey’s campaign / delegates noticed irregularities right away, raised concerns (now found to be justified) that were dismissed, and ended up walking out in protest. It was understood that Frey wasn’t likely to actually win the nomination, but could have feasibly prevented any endorsement (which Minneapolis DFL hasn’t given since 2009).
My take is that Minneapolis DFL, whether from incompetence, or improper bias in favor of Fateh, or a conspiracy of Frey supporters in leadership that just wanted to provide grounds to invalidate the results, really fucked up here. Maybe Fateh could have still won the endorsement if all the ballots in the first round were counted, but we’ll never know, because the second round would have been different. As it stands, I presume this is costing Fateh’s campaign a bunch of money to reprint campaign signs/materials, pull ads, etc, that cited the endorsement.
I don’t doubt that the establishment democrats would have found other things to complain about if Fateh had properly won this endorsement, but this was definitely not clean/proper, so withdrawing the endorsement is an appropriate course of action.
I would recommend you actually do some research before you try typing a long post trying to explain to people what’s going on.
From my understanding, this is not the fault of Fateh, but of the Democratic Party themselves, screwing up the excel sheet of one guy who probably didn’t even matter.
Claiming this is a valid reason to throw the entire victory of the democratic socialists overboard seems outrageous.
The entire election process was already set up, super confusing, which seems to be done on purpose to prevent less wealthy candidates from running.
From my understanding, this is not the fault of Fateh, but of the Democratic Party themselves
Oopsie.
They get no benefit of the doubt. This was on purpose.
From my understanding, this is not the fault of Fateh, but of the Democratic Party themselves […]
This is what I said.
Claiming this is a valid reason to throw the entire victory of the democratic socialists overboard seems outrageous.
The reason it matters is because of the nature of successive rounds of voting. When the missing (~175 / 1000) votes got counted (in retrospect), it showed an additional candidate should have been included in the second round of voting. And the democratic leadership pushed ahead with the flawed second round of voting without addressing the problem. I don’t remember all the details, but I believe the final vote also broke their own procedural requirements (in addition to Frey’s delegates having already walked out in protest).
I don’t know their procedures (and welcome a source/explanation), but clearly the absence of an endorsement since 2009 indicates it’s not easy to get the endorsement, and having an additional candidate in the second round of voting certainly seems like it has the potential to reduce the chances of a candidate securing the endorsement. I think it’s entirely reasonable, particularly in that context, to withdraw the endorsement.
Edit to add: I also agree that the primary/convention system, procedures, etc, probably do favor candidates supported by “the establishment”.
I can provide additional context as a convention attendee.
After the first round of voting, it was clear that Omar would have a majority. He earned 43% of the vote and other non-Frey voters were expected to vote Omar after seeing the results and knowing that 60% was needed for an endorsement.
At this point, Frey’s campaign started shenanigans that drew boos from the crowd. They called many times for rule changes and stall for time to prevent a second vote. Late into the night, Frey’s campaign went so far as to ask their delegates to go home to prevent a quorum.
Every deviation from convention rules was voted on and approved using procedure. Was it a shitshow? Yes. But in my view, it was done within the rules.
Thank you!
According to what I read last week, they confirmed 176 of first-round votes weren’t counted at the convention (thus, not reflected in the numbers from your photo). I didn’t find a source explaining what the distribution of missing or adjusted final votes was, just that it would’ve pushed Davis onto at least the second round of voting, which would have made it more difficult for Fateh to secure the endorsement (for reasons I can speculate about but don’t know).
I also subsequently found these two articles (first is short, second is extremely verbose) that provide additional color to the dysfunction.
Every deviation from convention rules was voted on and approved using procedure.
From the articles above, it sounds like some of those votes / rule changes violated the MN DFL constitution.
Context? With links instead of a Twitter screengrab? In my angry circlejerk? Begone!
Don’t worry about convenience, they’re always spouting Russian Propoganda.
“Everyone to my left is Russian!”
I keep hearing how the new DNC Chair (whose name I only hear when people are telling me this) is doing things differently now and this is going to stop.
OK new DNC Chair whose name is in the news so rarely I can never remember it, it hardly seems like there could be a more fertile opportunity to stop working against progressives, so any day now.
Didn’t they just run David Hogg out of the DNC?
Somebody recently argued to me that his election was “fraudulent”. Interesting way to put it.
They went to court and successfully argued that they don’t have to follow their own rules.
They selectively care about the rules when it suits them.
Like how any excuse stopped them from enacting their campaign promises, but the Leahy law was completely meaningless when they wanted to keep selling weapons for the genocide they wanted.
It did violate the DNC’s own election rules, yes. The candidates were paired on the ballots in a way that disadvantaged female representation.
It did violate the DNC’s own election rules, yes.
The unwritten one: “no one to the left of netanyahu”
Ken Martin has already neutered a notable progressive (David Hogg) by enforcing the neutrality of DNC officers in future primaries, while Hogg’s election to Vice Chair of the DNC was invalidated months after Hogg started making waves on the grounds of “gender diversity”.
by enforcing the neutrality of DNC officers in future primaries
Yeah, like it’s not only gonna be for the one primary where they wanted to oust Hogg.
I assure you that the national committee had abso-fucking-lutely nothing to do with this city-chapter scandal.
I’m not convinced that’s true, but this is hardly the only example of such, in any case, not even the only recent example, and not even the most high profile recent example.
coughCuomocough
When it’s no longer a pattern, people will stop pointing it out.
You’re mad that Cuomo didn’t get the endorsement? Why?
You’re mad that Cuomo didn’t get the endorsement? Why?
Um, no. And that feels fairly disingenuous since the progressive/leftist objections to Cuomo are pretty well known, and in particular his attacks on Mamdani and his support from establishment dems, and their corresponding attacks on Mamdani, even up to and including his declaration that it’s OK since maga can just get him in.
So please come back when you’d like to engage in good faith. Thank you now!
Mamdani is the DNC candidate. The vast majority of state and federal DNC support Mamdani. I have not seen anybody endorse third party independent Cuomo since he lost the election and left the party.
👍
Yeah, and currently people seem to think that Gavin Newsome would be anything other than a stock standard Democrat if he manages to win a 2028 Presidential bid (if the US even has an election).
But it’s all just Social Media “clap back” and talking points. Obviously it’s better to have a contender willing to do that, but he’s unlikely to be much more than Biden 2.0.
Gavin Newsom is basically George Bush 3
the Dems of today are closer to 1990s Republicans than 2020s Republicans are
Obama: “The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican.”
I’ve watched the Democrats move to the right since then
Not even close, if that were true then they’d have support of the private prison industry, but they don’t, Trump has completely polarized crime and all of the prison complex supports him and only him.
He hasn’t kissed the prison industry’s ass yet. Once he does, you’ll have another excuse.
🙄 🫸social populism
😍👍 trolling on twitter
True, but the whole “if we have elections” part is why I’ll back Newsom for now. Though I’m hoping a more socialist candidate gets the nomination.
Backing Newsom instead of demanding better is how Democrats will lose the election once again. Kamala didn’t lose because she was black or a woman. She lost because she pushed a centrist line. And supposedly Kamala was the last hope to have elections in 2028, so I’m not sure how this line of thinking works.
Especially at this point when nothing is locked in I don’t understand why people are capitulating against their own interests already.
At this point only the Democratic Socialists of America seems to have any standards within the Democratic party and the Dems are actively working against DSA as hard as possible. I’d be curious who the DSA would want to run as president though.
America is so lost. You guys are on the verge of utter collapse.
We know. Collapse seems all but inevitable. We dont know what to do about it.
Seems pretty self evident to me.
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“stock standard Dem” is looking pretty good right now.
Why? They had a big hand in causing this mess in the first place.
They haven’t had enough senate seats to have a hand in anything for over a decade. 48 or less for 6 consecutive whole congresses.
The opposition is literally killing people.
Why do you think that is? Do you think the fact that they fought harder against Bernie than Trump have anything to do with it?
They impeached trump, they gave third party Bernie a spot in their primaries and be came in second place by about 3 Million votes in 2016 and 9 Million votes in 2020.
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Democrats don’t “play dirty” to the left. Your need to constantly be a victim is why Trump is president.
And Cuomo is running as an independent because he’s just wanting to support the Democrat nominee?
I read about this one earlier. It’s a city-chapter not state-chapter and the complaints came rolling in over how the chapter handled choosing their candidate and removing one of the other options too early, and threats of demanding refund of contributions from multiple members.
All in all it just sounds like the election itself was handled poorly and not any fault of any individual candidate.
EDIT: It’s so funny when people block you and then reply to you, so you can’t see what they’re saying.
What a complete lack of surprise it is to see you defending the party ratfucking another progressive.
Well.
Have fun trying to make a 3rd party viable when no 3rd party is trying to be viable and when their most popular candidate only got half of a single percent of the total votes cast in 2024.
And have fun doing that before 2026 or 2028.
Yeah, I’ll continue advocating for reforming an existing entity instead of chasing unicorns.
You’re welcome to keep advocating for reform. Just be aware that Democrats will almost certainly pull out every dirty trick in the book, including going full Fascist, if a reformist ever stands to win.
Lemme know when you reform the Democrats, while they appease, playcate, and compromise with the fascists known as Republicans.
I’ll continue advocating for reforming an existing entity instead of chasing unicorns.
Almost every high functioning democracy in the world has managed to populate a credible multi-party assembly. To pick some random examples, the UK has ~14 different parties seated in its legislature, Canada has 5, France 12, Sweden 10, Germany 9, the Philippines 13, Japan 10. These aren’t cherry-picked either, you can pretty much choose any country and go have a look at its assembly makeup, and you’ll consistently see that the ones with only two parties are… not good company to be in.
The only thing stopping America from electing a government that represents the views of its people, are cheerleaders for the status quo using circular logic like yours.
And have fun doing that before 2026 or 2028.
Have fun trying to reform the Democrats by then…
