Comment and thread in question: https://lemmy.world/comment/23138585
Ban from that community, memes@lemmy.ml:
Rule 1 of said community: Be civil and nice.
Rule 1 of said instance: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
I was clearly not bigoted in any manner, and I believe more civil than the way I was treated, was it the Code of Conduct? Excerpts:
Please be kind and courteous. There’s no need to be mean or rude.
Respect that people have differences of opinion and that every design or implementation choice carries a trade-off and numerous costs. There is seldom a right answer.
I think I was kind with the people I disagreed with, even if they could not be in return, yet those comments (some including ableist slurs) remain. I think this is enough to demonstrate it is merely a difference in ideology which motivated the ban. Well, bans, because it seems they copied and pasted the same ban in all the communities they have access to:
It’s not a general lemmy.ml ban, just those in particular.
I understand this kind of behavior in safe space communities that don’t want outsiders bellyaching about the pragmatism of electoral politics, but that’s not the case in any of the communities I’ve been banned from, nor is it a part of the instance rules or CoC.
PTB or triggered shitlib? Not an exclusive or, of course.
OP got banned from this community for “Bad jacketing and electoralism”, and while I aint reading 125 comments to see bad jacketing, including electorialism as a ban reason is wild af.
Regardless if PTB or YDI, I think grass touching might be in order for multiple parties here for taking online politics LARP too seriously. It’s a beautiful spring weather, perfect for a walk.
Its absolutely hilarious that there are two types of people in this thread, people who read your comments and people who see ml so assume it must be a PTB. How about you make it easier for everyone and post those offending comments?
ptb thank you for calling out radical liberals like braininabox and desaline
lemmy.ml is an instance well-known for being, shall we say… unreasonable when it comes to politics.
The admins and a large portion of the user base are tankies— people who claim to be extreme leftists/communists but really worship the likes of Stalin, Xi and the oppressive authoritarian government of regimes, such as the Soviet Union, China, and North Korea. They are very much intolerant any criticism whatsoever or anyone else’s political views. Unfortunately, the administrators of that instance are also the main developers for Lemmy itself.
This is why
the code has been forked to another platformalternatives to lemmy have been developed, such as PieFed, which is federated and interoperates with Lemmy, and is not dependent on the crazy ass developers. It also has better mod and admin features. but even if you don’t wanna switch to PieFed, you can at least avoid communities on Lemmy.ml. I have the whole instance blocked.piefed is not a fork, it’s a completely different codebase. with plenty of its own problems.
oh, my mistake. with a quick google, I see that it’s python, not rust, so yeah, obviously not a fork. my mistake!
did you also see the opinionated parts? if you enable the default filter list piefed hides all meme and 4chan communities and enables built in image recognition specifically to prevent people from posting greentexts. it also keeps an internal tally of user “quality” based on what communities they post in.
truly everything is political.
yeah, I don’t really consider those to be the “problems” others do, especially since instance admins can simply disable those features.
of course they can, just like how the ml admins can choose not to have their weird swearing filter that nobody else uses. but it’s still in there and that’s what they thought communities wanted. eg, that’s what they wanted for their community. point being, no codebase is neutral and i don’t know the intent of the piefed dev either.
ok, but, again, I don’t view what the piefed dev did as problematic. the lemmy devs? I do find them problematic for many reasons, including the ones I’ve already mentioned.
so, enough with the whataboutisms
it’s not a counter-accusation trying to paint one in a better light than the other. i want none of it, and the fact that the bias is apparently okay as long as the politics are aligned feels pretty shit.
Oh, damn, that “user quality” metric is really messed up
Piefed isn’t a fork, it’s a completely different piece of software using the same protocol.
I don’t think the Lemmy Devs have much to do with the bans on that server, it’s mostly the community mods.
Dessalines does bans like this all the time.
I’ve said before that if Dessalines spent half as much time developing the platform instead of banning people for wrongthink, Lemmy would be a much better platform.
I’m not sure where I heard it was a fork, but I’m obviously misremembering.
fixed
It’s an easy mistake to make, I only know they’re different because piefed is python while Lemmy is rust.
I’m sure I forgot because I’m pretty baked right now, lol
I thought that was more limited to lemmygrad, sad to see.
Yeah just avoid communities on that instance and you’ll be fine.
oh, no… lemmygrad is just much, much worse. also avoid hexbear. it’s like lemmygrad x 4chan
I can’t actually see what your [deleted] comments say but even if they were objectionable to their rules in that community, revoking your access to other communities entirely irrelevant to memes@lemmy.ml seems completely PTB.
Especially as you’ve got BrainInTheBox there running rampant, as usual.
IIRC, on lemmy instances, there is no actual “instance-wide ban” feature. to do a ban like that, you have to get banned from all of the communities you’re subscribed to via some scripted tool, so this is how it shows up. this is one of the improvements the platforms like mBin and PieFed have included in their code. apparently, it’s still “coming soon” in Lemmy’s code.
Yes, it is possible abbotsbury copped an instance ban and thus was banned from all lemmy.ml communities they had previously posted to. Note that the weird way instance bans are handled has been solved on Piefed.
I didn’t know Mbin also did it though.
Lemmy 1.0 addresses the issue, when it comes out instance bans on Lemmy will work the same way they do on Piefed now.
Lemmy 1.0 will come out the same day China achieves communism.
exactly. as I have never run a lemmy instance, I don’t know what the admin tools look like, but I read someone describe it in a comment here several weeks ago.
Yeah BitB was pretty crazy, seemingly waiting around to reply instantly up and down the thread even when I was replying to others.
whaaaat the fuuuuck
oh, then there’s this bit from you:
why would Democrats not be the clear superior if only because they don’t cause needless suffering to interior minorities?
tell us you’re a white male without telling us. you are so out of touch with reality, it’s a wonder you can tie your fucking shoes.
PTB or triggered shitlib?
motherfucker, YOU are the triggered shitlib.
I don’t know what people expect will happen when they go into leftist communities or even just communities run by leftists and start spouting shitlib electoralist apologia.
Yes, assuming Democrats and Republicans have 100% identical foreign policy, and the only difference is less oppression on marginalized groups, why does that not make them the clear superior choice in a two party election? Why are you willing to let more suffering happen because the lesser evil isn’t lesser enough?
If every election is a decision between the lesser of two evils and both evils become more evil over time then harm isn’t actually reduced in the long run.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal. The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
The Democrats lost because they were genocidal
Irrelevant, I don’t care why they lost, I’m asserting that they would have been better. Thank you for your soapbox though.
The Democrats are to blame for that, for being genocidal, not voters who refused to support genocide
Sure, but those voters are also to blame for the non-genocide issues which get worse when the Democrats lose.
Do you want genocide? If not, you cannot in good conscious vote for a genocidal candidate. If you vote for genocide, and genocide happens, you got what you voted for.
This is simplistic thinking which ignores the reality of the situation. The only thing a voter can do in a general election is pick the party that more closely aligns with their values, that does not mean ALL of the party’s values are the voters, but simply the more palatable one.
So yeah, genocide sucks, but not doing your electoral part means all the extra bullshit Republicans do[1] is what you voted when you abstain.
1: since clearly the people who have problems with what I say don’t care about minorities being harassed, kidnapped, and killed, I’ll keep it simple with “doing nothing about the climate catastrophe” and “being egregiously pro-business/anti-consumer,” maybe with a side of “overwhelmingly anti-labor.”
Don’t like it? Take it up with the DNC.
Oh thank you for asking, I have actually.
and both evils become more evil over time
Has that actually happened though? There are certainly many issues Democrats have been improving on since Clinton.
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
Are you like some rich white guy who has no working class friends or something? I genuinely don’t understand.
mate. i appreciate you being open and proving that banning you was the correct choice.
who exactly began the mass deportations? how I live the free healthcare that Biden gave us instead of funding a genocide.
people like you is exactly why this nation is now a fascist shithole.
I think you might be replying to the wrong user, though OP got instance banned, so I think they can’t hear you anyways
There’s no way you can be serious. How sheltered are you?
How sheltered are YOU? America is a conservative country and things change slowly, but they do change. Some thing have improved in my lifetime, I don’t think that’s a controversial statement. Just because capitalism hasn’t been completely overthrown yet doesn’t mean there is no change.
I’m a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that. Some things have improved, but many more significant things have gotten worse. The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
TVs are cheaper, but food, rent and childcare are more expensive, all relative to wages, just for an example.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
I’m a union rep, so not sheltered at all. I have a front row seat to the degradation of society. Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Thanks for your work! I was in a union all the way up until I retired last year. They are becoming more and more rare these days, sadly.
Things have been consistently getting worse since the '70s at least.
Well, except the acceptance of queer people, of course. Women’s lib is also much more widely accepted, if we’re going that far back.
Sure, some things have improved, nobody is denying that
Nobody except you?
The thing is, the stuff that has improved is like +5 improvement, and the things that have gotten worse is like -100.
I don’t disagree.
I want to go back a step, and try to understand you here. What do you do for work?
I do unskilled labor.
Strawman much?
No, I try not to. How do you think I’ve misrepresented them?
lmao shut your fucking mouth about suffering, you piece of shit. you don’t get to lecture people about suffering after saying shit like that, you disgusting liberal asswipe.
Cope and seethe, you dehumanize people for ideological purposes, your boos mean nothing.
which is why you ran here to complain about getting banned, you shitlib. you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities.
you will never be a good person.
Wow, what an insufferable goof.
Hope things get better and/or you grow out of it.
grow out of hating fascists? not likely.
The person you’re being an asshole at is clearly not a fascist.
It seems like you’re angry, want an excuse to shit on people and are wrapping it in politics you don’t seem to understand.
Like I said, hope you grow out of it or things get better.
Wanting things to be better for marginalized people does not a fascist make.
you need our sympathy for your assnine takes in order to make you feel good about being unconcerned with the suffering of minorities
Umm honey you’re the one unconcerned with minorities suffering. Are you feeling okay? You’re clearly having issues projecting.
don’t call people “honey” unless you want to catch a instance ban. I’m not your fucking honey.
Oh my bad, shitlib motherfucker. How many marginalized lives have you made worse today?
Just read through the comments- lmao, YDM. Fascist apologia def seems to fit rule 1 of both the instance and community
Side note: What do you think “shitlib” means?
Edit:
Words OP doesn’t know the meaning of:
- shitlib
- defend
- support
- apologia
- logic
- consequentialism
- semantics
- option
It’s not fascist apologia, I directly stated that I’m not defending anything the Democrats do or fail to do, they are merely the best option in current elections. Two party elections are a classic trolley problem, and choosing to not pull the lever is still making a choice in the system.
Them being the best fascists is some kind of apologia.
And no. It’s not the trolly problem and framing it as such is why shitlibs like you threw two elections to Trump. If your framing and understanding of electoralism was right you would be catching W’s instead of strays.
choosing to not pull the lever is still making a choice in the system.
So there are 3 options right? Not the trolly problem then.
Something you need to get through your head is that how you think elections work is utterly fucking irrelevant to deciding the best strategies to win them from the campaigns perspective. All that matters is how voters en masse (not as individuals) behave.
Framing elections (wrongly) as set of individual choices as the harm reduction narrative goes is like using a model which describes how an snowflake grows to decide what happens during an avalanche. A person is smart enough to use a turn style when given the space and time to do so. People moving together behave more like a fluid and has resulted in human crushes.
Take the trolly problem and strategic voting, and throw them in the fucking trash for the worthless memes they are.
Them being the best fascists is some kind of apologia.
What does apologia mean, to you?
It’s not the trolly problem and framing it as such is why shitlibs like you threw two elections to Trump
Strawman, you don’t know who I voted for in primaries.
So there are 3 options right? Not the trolly problem then.
No, there’s two options, Red and Blue. Not pulling the lever is allowing Red or Blue to happen.
Something you need to get through your head is that how you think elections work is utterly fucking irrelevant
It’s pretty relevant, only Democrats and Republicans win general elections.
Framing elections (wrongly) as set of individual choices as the harm reduction narrative goes is like using a model which describes how an snowflake grows to decide what happens during an avalanche. A person is smart enough to use a turn style when given the space and time to do so. People moving together behave more like a fluid and has resulted in human crushes.
Take the trolly problem and strategic voting, and throw them in the fucking trash for the worthless memes they are.
That doesn’t change reality of outcomes.
You’re arguing from a consequentialist ethical framework as if it’s the default, while also failing to see the broader consequences of “lesser-evilism”
Not pulling the lever is a valid option even from a consequentialist perspective (as well as, of course, from a deontological perspective or a virtue ethics perspective).
The trolley problem, as a thought experiment, does not exist to justify consequentialism, but to distinguish it from other ethical frameworks.
You are more than defending the Democrats- you’re actively supporting them. Your comments demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of both ethics and logic, and you’re looking at the problem from an extremely narrow perspective.
You are more than defending the Democrats- you’re actively supporting them
I’m advocating the lesser evil, which in this case in Democrats. That’s not defending nor supporting, they happen to be the best choice. If another party bomes a Big 2 (or if voting reform is implemented and they don’t need to be) then I’ll gladly hop ship to a party better than Democrats. But the current reality is only Democrats and Republicans win elections.
Your comments demonstrate a fundamental misunderstanding of both ethics and logic
I don’t think that’s been demonstrated.
and you’re looking at the problem from an extremely narrow perspective.
I’m looking at the problem pragmatically, if it results in less people suffering, that’s the vote that should be cast.
On the contrary, I think you’re looking at it from an extremely narrow purity perspective. Not pulling the lever is allowing any outcome to happen, even one you know to be worse.
I don’t think that’s been demonstrated.
You continue to demonstrate it
Voting for dems is literally supporting them. Arguing in their favor is very much defending them.
You’d benefit to realize that your ethical framework is not the default. Additionally, you are blatantly implementing your own framework (consequentialism) extremely narrowly.
A consequentialist (like yourself) could just as easily argue that lesser-evilism has greater long term consequences that render the short term relief irrelevant.
Consequentialism is not the end all be all of ethics. In fact, it can very easily be used to justify genocide. While you are indirectly doing this, I mean much more blatantly (e.g., “suffering is bad, so we should sterilize everyone to end the human race and therefore end suffering”).
A deontological framework argues that by “pulling the lever” you are now responsible for killing someone, whereas by abstaining you are not responsible (but those aren’t the only options in the real life political scenario, to be clear). I understand that your ethical framework suggests that abstaining makes one complicit in the greater consequences, but this is a perspective (opinion) and not a fact. And again, this perspective ignores the broader consequences down the road that come from lesser-evilism
But they are the only two options, mathematically only a Democrat or a Republican will win a United States First Past The Post election. Those are truly the only outcomes that can happen, barring significant changes which I am also advocating for. You can pretend this is debate club all you want, but if you have the choice to do something to avoid suffering and you do nothing, you are (in part) responsible for the suffering through inaction.
Anyway, strawman because I am not a consequentialist, merely advocating for pragmatic voting.
wow great meme friendo, very cool!
I like how you focused on just the parts of his comment that had words you understood and skipped the rest 🤣
Aww do I have a admirer? Thanks for following but I’m not interested. Besides I’m a minority so it probably isn’t safe for me to be with someone who doesn’t think I count as people.
It’s not like he is responding to all my points, so why bother?
Thanks for following but I’m not interested
you came to our comm, dipshit. nobody is “following” you.
you’re following my posts amigo :)
Forget it Jake - it’s Tankietown.
Tankie is when you [checks notes] want people to have better lives.
It’s a shame so many leftists seem to have no interest in influencing the system.
Yeah we should instead work within the system. That’s working so well work Trump in charge.
Well, there’s a problem here. Problems
First is that I suspect there was both a community and instance ban since the timing is more or less instant on the c/s that aren’t the one where the comment was from. You’re also tagged as being both instance and community banned in that community when viewed via browser.
So, the extra c/s aren’t useful for PTB purposes since an instance ban does that. It comes up a lot.
Anyway, it’s .ml, so there’s also the fact that it’s kinda like jumping into a pool you’ve seen someone pissing in, then complaining about the urine content. Yeah, there’s a lot of PTB and ptb-like modding there. However, it also tends to happen on very well known lines, so there’s a factor where making any political comment that isn’t 100% toeing the line is partially on the user. They’re absolutely zealots regarding some subjects, so if you engage on those subjects, you can’t complain much about the ban coming.
Since it’s a temp ban, which is gentle from .ml, I’m more surprised about that than a mod there issuing a ban over a democrat defense.
Is it still bullshit that you can get banned for an otherwise on topic and politely phrased political view on a thread under a political post? Absolutely. And you should likely block the instance and be done with them rather than engage again once the ban is over. This is regular there, and expecting otherwise just isn’t realistic.
So, yeah, PTB. But also, your comments there amount to rage baiting for that instance, even though I don’t think that was your intent.
You’re also tagged as being both instance and community banned in that community when viewed via browser.
That cannot be true, the largest .ml community I can see, privacy@lemmy.ml, allows me to vote, post, and comment.
your comments there amount to rage baiting for that instance
I think that’s absurd, given the CoC. I mean, it’s clearly an “ought vs is” thing, I get that, but still a complete joke.
That cannot be true, the largest .ml community I can see, privacy@lemmy.ml, allows me to vote, post, and comment.
Instance bans don’t actually stop you from posting. It just stops the posts and comments you make there from federating out. So if you have been instance banned, whatever you post on privacy@lemmy.ml would only be visible on lemmy.world.
Only community bans function as hard-bans, and an instance ban currently only hard bans you from communities on an instance you have posted to.
Interesting, thank you.
Re: absurdity. That’s why a lot of people block the whole instance. It is absurd tbh. Yeah, it’s their instance, they can do what they want, but there’s a line between making a curated and ism specific space and being zealots. They don’t just cross the line, they often stomp on it and attempt to obliterate it.
Someone else already covered the fact that a ban doesn’t prevent all interactions, but you can visit the instance via browser and navigate to your comments. You’ll see two tags, one that says banned, the other saying something like community banned or something like that. If you’re only banned from a community, and not the instance, there’s not going to be both (afaik, but I do know that’s the explanation I’ve seen given in the past). So I wasn’t pulling it out of my ass.
Lmfao you are such a shitlib. YDI
Heck, actually, YDM
We really need another “it’s .ml, they crazy, who cares?” Option.
I have never missed lemmy dot ml. I blocked the instance at the first sign of reddit behavior.
