Do you use the word “trans” when talking about nonbinary people?

  • Aaron@lemmy.nz
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    54 minutes ago

    In my experience, there can be very strong views on this question from people who identify as enby and/or trans. I always defer to what the enby person I am interacting with prefers identifies as, but know that what is good for the goose isn’t always good for the gander. I’d always suggest asking the person you’re referring to about how they personally identify, but I have had almost zero reason to ever ask. Pronouns are usually enough for day to day interactions and friends/family have always just volunteered without me asking (they’d give different responses to your question, by the way).

    Edit: suggested to me that “prefer” sounds suggestive. How someone identifies isn’t a preference but a fact. Crossed out in original to show what changed, and I was assured it’s nitpicky but nice to not use prefer 😊

  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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    8 hours ago

    Yes but this is where certain qualifiers come in. I’ve known nonbinary people for whom all it is is a personal identity. When I talk about trans issues they’re rarely a part of it, because those issues rarely impact them. Inversely I’ve known nonbinary people who’ve had to grapple with getting legal recognition, getting access to surgery and hormones, and all that other stuff. Of course they’re included when I talk about trans issues. At the end of the day, both and everything in between falls under the umbrella, but not all discussions about the umbrella are about everyone under it, and it’s not always worth creating words for different subcategories.

  • Pyrixas@piefed.social
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    5 hours ago

    Enby here.

    Absolutely not.

    Non-binary means you represent yourself outside of both genders as in, you identify as neither, you’re just an individual. Alternatively, you can also identify as genderfluid, being that you’re a mix of both but still don’t identify yourself as strongly either gender.

    But regarding anything transgender-related? No. Transgender is you still identifying by a gender and changing over to that other gender. So long as you identify, strongly, as one or both genders to be either, you are not non-binary. So, please don’t confuse the two.

    SO: The key difference between non-binary and trans is pretty clear. Non-Binary identifies OUTSIDE of genders, all and any. Transgenders identifies INSIDE genders, both or any. The only key trait they both share is - Genderfluid. But even then, the two don’t correspond eachother. And to clarify the shared Genderfluid label;

    When you’re Non-Binary and Genderfluid, you take numerous attributes and traits from either gender, but you do not strongly represent either gender. You can behave like a man outside, feel female inside and still be like “I still see myself as just a person, no gender.” and vice versa.

    When you’re Transgender and Genderfluid, you take numerous attributes and traits from either gender, so you identify as both genders and you go about that however you wish.

    • TractorDuffy@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 hours ago

      Transgender is you still identifying by a gender and changing over to that other gender.

      I’m not sure I agree… many of my trans friends have said they didn’t “change over” to the other gender, they were always that gender.

      Non-Binary identifies OUTSIDE of genders, all and any.

      Again, I think you missed the mark here… nonbinary folks often do identify as a gender which is not part of the typical binary. I think you confused this for agender.

    • Taleya@aussie.zone
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      4 hours ago

      Trans as an affix doesn’t just mean across though, it also means beyond. So outside genders you can also be transgender.

      Moot point as self identity is the real authority here, but wordplay is fun

      • Pyrixas@piefed.social
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        2 hours ago

        …No. That’s just you re-defining an already established term and trying to expand upon, beyond that establishment.

        No, wordplay is not fun, it just creates confusion and this is exactly why, it’s harder for some LGBTQ+ members to get acceptance. Because, you there stirring the pot of wordplay, just confuses people into identity chaos. Can you try explaining to someone who doesn’t know or understand, but is curious, about certain members from the community with a straight face?

        Without them idly nodding before probably going “okay, cool” but not in a “I totally understand” way but more like a dismissive way because internally they’re fucking confused and probably are more turned off from understanding LGBTQ+ individuals than before.

        That’s you ruining it for them. So no, wordplay is NOT fun. Fuck off with that!

  • BougieBirdie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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    15 hours ago

    Enby here: I’m neither a transman nor a transwoman, but trans issues affect me.

    “Trans” can be a pretty large umbrella. When you get into specifics, I’m not so sure that I’m trans. But I am part of the trans community. Not trans, but also trans. Schrodinger’s trans person.

    Consider someone who’s agender. They’d be non-binary, but they also aren’t transitioning to any gender. Ask the GOP which bathroom to use and you can watch their head explode.

  • inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    That is decided by each individual non binary person. If they say their trans, that’s valid. If they say they aren’t, also valid. Trans is an intentionally broad community, but never one that requires membership.

  • SincerityIsCool@lemmy.ca
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    12 hours ago

    The definition of transgender is anyone who identifies with a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth. It is therefore an umbrella term that includes nonbinary genders. Being transgender and transitioning are separate things.

    That being said, when people are talking about “trans people” they often mean binary trans people (ie men and women), especially in the current political context.

    It’s also not unheard of for some nonbinary people to be uncomfortable with calling themselves trans, presumably for the associations with binary trans people.

    Edit: i should clarify, by this I mean transgender definitionally in the abstract. When talking about a specific person’s identity, it just comes down how they identify. If an enby doesn’t identify as trans for any reason, don’t call them trans.

  • Skullgrid@lemmy.world
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    15 hours ago

    idk about trans, but they are gender nonconforming and part of GSM (gender and sexuality minorities).

  • forestbeasts@pawb.social
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    13 hours ago

    Only if they consider themselves trans.

    I’m nonbinary and not trans! People have tried to declare to me that nonbinary people are inherently trans. No. I will bite them. :V

    – Frost

  • TheMuffinMan@piefed.world
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    14 hours ago

    Trans man here, IMHO being nonbinary can be paired with being trans, but not necessarily, i.e. they are not inherently the same thing.

    If they have dysphoria and want to transition to alleviate it (irrespective of whether they can), then yes, they are trans.

    If the extent of a nonbinary person’s journey is to go by they/them, or they/them + the pronouns associated with their AGAB, then I would not categorise them as trans. To be clear, I am not saying that this is not a valid stance - just that the experience is not the same as being trans, though there may be some overlap.

    Obviously you cannot work this out without intimately knowing the person, and it isn’t really anyone else’s business anyway, but to answer the question explicitly, I would refer to them as a nonbinary person (in the absence of further information, and where the ‘nonbinary’ descriptor is relevant otherwise I would just say ‘person’), not a trans person.

    • Echo (they/them)@lemmy.world
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      2 hours ago

      I am definitely both - transfemme nonbinary person here. While I am transitioning to alleviate my immense dysphoria, I am still most comfortable with they/them pronouns - though will accept she/her if binary terms must be used.

      I don’t feel like a binary trans girl but I need to be as far away from being seen as a boy as possible. Which oddly leaves me desperate to be seen as a girl, because it’s the least incorrect of the two socially standard genders.

    • StudSpud The Starchy@aussie.zone
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      14 hours ago

      Disclaimer: I do not speak for other nonbinary people. The below is my personal opinion towards myself and does not extend to others.

      This is the view I hold as well, about myself. I don’t have dysphoria regarding aspects of my body, so I don’t categorise myself as a trans person. I’m nonbinary, that’s the term that resonates with me most clearly. I do not wish my body reflected my inner understanding of myself, because my body doesn’t matter to me in that respect.

      Idc what other people categorise themselves as; that’s a personal, intimate, and inner journey we all walk when queer and I respect them and their wishes.

  • birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    13 hours ago

    Not necessarily. If someone’s intersex, for example, that could be a cis nonbinary person (if they identify as such).

    Likewise you’ve got people who all their life haven’t really felt particularly to the gender binary. Legal stuff might’ve still forced them into a box, though. A common definition is that of people whose gender identity doesn’t overlap with the one assigned at birth.

    I personally mostly use trans for people who identify as such; people who desire to change how they express their gender identity, for example. Others might have different ideas about when to use that term or not, but that’s how I view it myself.