And after 26+ years of friendship, my buddy chose this month to be the month where he finally hunkered down and built his first PC. Of all the times to build a budget parts list for a friend…
We need global laws against gouging
This isn’t typical price gouging. It’s an industry moving away from consumers because our buying power is nothing compared to large corporations running on AI circlejerk VCs.
I mean, it is also that OpenAI cornered the RAM market, which is a typical price gouging scenario; it’s just weird that OpenAI wasn’t trying to make money directly through the maneuver. It does seem like they wanted prices to rise, though, to increase the barrier to competition.
Yeah, they can be enforced by the power rangers across borders.
It’s a pipe dream, sadly.
i really wish I could have eeked out one more GPU upgrade before the shit hit the fan…but GPUs are at the point now where you gotta upgrade the PSU to upgrade the GPU since power draw demands are getting absolutely donk.
Weird aside, but I have a 14900k which just eats power. About 400ish watts draw during CPU benchmarks for total ststem draw. I had a 1000w psu and finally got a 5090. Now a 400w cpu + 600w gpu should not work- but it did. I did stress test both at the same time and hit 1100w, but it lived. Thing is, most games do not stress borh CPU and GPU at max at the same time, so real world usage I was always under.
Still, I want headroom, so I got a deal on a 1500w psu. New PSU is more efficient, and running the same simultaneous cpu/gpu benchmark I hit about 960w, so the efficiency bump kept me under my old psu limit. It did lead me to get a new PSU, but technically it would have been mostly okay.
GPUs at least are actually not that expensive right now. Aside from the 5090, they’re mostly close to MSRP, which is a pretty novel situation. I was waiting to upgrade my whole system for that, though, because my CPU would be a bottleneck at this point, and that’s not really an option now because of the crazy RAM prices. The past few years have been super frustrating for PC builders.
for now
by the time i can afford it, and a new PSU, the ram issue will probably see GPUs skyrocket as well. Especially with companies cutting consumer production for AI production.
memory is way up
GPU’s will need memory, production cuts
followed by production cuts for cpu’s monitors and powersupplies
welcome to the $10k mid range gaming PC in 2027
And all that just for some shitty AI that’s getting all its questions wrong
And my monthly power bill has tripled to subsidize them. I’m paying for several new PCs for someone whether I like it or not.
I wonder if developers will finally start taking middle end GPUs and the existing handhelds seriously.
There are “Deck optimized” games that run horrendously. But what if people can’t afford new hardware for the next four years? It’s either fix the performance or lose sales. The Switch 2 is likely going to become the most common performance target, and having only 12GBs of shared memory, it actually helps PCs in this situation.
I wonder if developers will finally start taking middle end GPUs and the existing handhelds seriously
They’ll have to, soon enough, if they wanna continue selling games
run horrendously. But what if people can’t afford new hardware for the next four years? It’s either fix the performance or lose sales. The Switch 2 is likely going to become the most common performance target, and having only 12GBs of shared memory, it actually helps PCs in this situation.
One could hope, but the cost will carry through to consoles as well :(
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Our economy increasingly is consumed to serve the rich. They are eating the world. Grocery stores increasingly cater to the wealthy. So do the automakers. Billionaires are buying up whole city blocks for themselves. And now we won’t be able to buy electronics because they’ve taken the resources for their speculative investments, and if they crash the economy our tax dollars will be appropriated to bail them out. It’s almost like we’re barreling towards a violent confrontation between the classes…
I for one am in favor of throwing the rich into wood chippers.
The rich and their bought and paid for politicians.
Feet first.
It’s such a shame to see high-performance computing and gaming more broadly become largely unaffordable. Hell, prior to the DRAM shortage, the current-generation game consoles were already MORE EXPENSIVE than they were at launch. And it’s just going to get worse.
Like it was before. In the, not so long ago, past a high end pc was too expensive for the average user.
This statement sounds defeatist.
None of this is “high performance computing”. Are you simulating nuclear explosions? Airflow around supersonic aircraft? Sequencing DNA?
This is all entertainment, it’s useless, it turns people into potatoes. Digital garbage to make AI fat people fart videos.
Good riddance I say.
“Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays, please eliminate three. I am not a crackpot.”
Go use a type writer.
You posting on the Internet is also useless digital garbage, so put your money where your mouth is and go do something productive.
Lil bro thinks this is only about gaming
Probably never used his pc for anything other than
I simulated a nuclear accident in a i5 2540M
I just did on an esp32
On my steam deck. It was devastating 🤣
It’s just nonsense. Absolutely nonsense.
Or gpu prices or hdd/ssd prices that never recovered from the tsunami. Consumers just keep getting fucked.
Prices don’t generally recover; any reason for a price rise is a reason to make it the new norm.
Used to be, competition would spring up and keep them in check, but now that the entire market is 6 companies in a trench coat, any new competitor would just be acquired or forced out of business with legal demands or supplier tampering.
A rising tide drowns those who can’t swim.
On the plus side, indie games that don’t require a rocket ship for a PC have never been better. So, can still play some good stuff on my old clunker. Thanks to Steam/Proton, they run even better on my old computer.
Would be nice to see the gaming industry pivot back to making innovative games within the constraints of hardware, instead of just expecting customers to throw ever more powerful (and power consuming) hardware at it.
As much (well deserved) hate that Nintendo gets, they are fantastic at this. They seem to be able to make games look good on low powered systems with stylistic decisions and smart optimization/coding. They learned some pretty important things in the NES/SNES era about using tricks to squeeze performance out of the few KB/MB they had to work with.
Yeah that crossed my mind, but if I’m not mistaken Pokemon was developed by Game Freak, only licensed by Nintendo.
DLSS has made devs lazy. Why bother optimizing when you can have some whiz bang AI algorithm turn a low res input into a greasy looking high res output.
Some Indy games using unreal engine can still bog down a fast PC…
I’m sure it doesn’t help that motherboard manufacturers have increasingly been targeting “whale” consumers over the last 10-15 years. I remember when a top of the line motherboard would cost you $300; and an average board was around $100-150.
Have not built a PC since Windows7, what is the difference between a 150 and a top of the line motherboard?
I’m talking more like the Windows ME/XP days to be honest. But too many to count. It’s more that actually useful features that used to be fairly standard (like 7-segment status displays and speakers) are effectively being gated behind $500+ motherboards to make them more attractive. A board that would have come with alphanumeric status codes now is lucky to ship with a couple LEDs that just indicate where a problem is at, not what the specific problem is.
Nothing lasts forever. Even this.
Yep. Being able to own a PC was nice while it lasted.
I mean… We will learn to make our rigs last, do more with less, and carry on optimizing Linux builds. Anything you can run today, you’ll be able to run tomorrow. And there is enough backlog to keep us all busy until at least 2028… Be honest with yourself lol
I mean, a PC from year 1999 is in the realm of possible for plenty of more localized production chains than needed to have that monster with Ryzen in the name.
And it’s not unreasonable to expect such a scattering of production. It happened with plenty of technologies. Also it’s not unreasonable to expect a return from more sophisticated and powerful material culture to one less so at both, but more accessible.
That’s what happened with automobiles a few times in history, that’s what happened with construction technologies and money many times in history, with food, with warfare.
That semiconductors are something challenging in complexity to produce - that actually makes such scattering more probable.
It’s not much different from chinaware or late medieval metallurgy needed for firearms. Strategic technologies are hard to achieve and it’s simpler to purchase their output, but eventually everyone realizes they need their own.
So I really hope that instead of the same not really diverse ecosystem of Intel, AMD and ARM powerful hardware we’ll have a thousand different local manufacturers of partially compatible hardware far weaker, like Amiga 1200, but more interesting.
Perhaps this will also be similar to the transition from late Rome to early Middle Ages.
It just makes sense historically. More distributed production environment can support smaller efficiency, - can’t make and sell on the same scale, - but there will be constant pressure to have it.
Of course, in reality this is all alarmism for no reason. There will be a bubble burst, suppose, - well, then there’ll be plenty of cheap hardware thrown out. The RAM manufacturers will have hard times, but it’ll balance out eventually. Just how it did after the dotcom bubble, not in the best way, perhaps with only a few manufacturers remaining, but it will. Or if there will be no bubble burst, suppose all that computing power founds an application with non-speculative value, - well, there’s still long way to go before your typical PC usage starts requiring really expensive amounts of RAM. If we drop the Web, even with modern Linux or FreeBSD one could survive on 2GB RAM and Intel C2D in year 2019. Then on 4GB, almost comfortable, even playing some games.
One good thing I’m seeing - those RAM prices can eventually kill the Web. It’s the most RAM-hungry part of our needs for no good reason. Perhaps Gemini is not what can replace it, it’s too basic, but I can see it becoming in corporate interest to support a leaner non-compatible replacement for the same niche. And corporate interest kills.
Or perhaps they’ll like some sort of semantic web gone wrong way - with some kind of “web” intended for AI agents, not humans, with humans having a chat prompt.
ELKS linux runs on 128 Kb RAM on ROM-based systems.
Or the PC market existing.
It’s only going to get worse.
I’m on ryzen 9 5900x, rtx 3080, 32 GB DDR4, with mobo and psu that’s ~€850 today and it will play most modern games on high settings 1080p at +100 fps. Computer hardware these days is a lot more like car hardware than it used to be. Generational improvements aren’t as big and the price for a used 5 year old unit is a ⅓ of a new one. Unless you absolutely need the latest and greatest go with a used last gen.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/XpFtXR
That setup would currently run for around $1730? Without investing into a monitor, or any peripherals like keyboard, mouse, etc and picking a relatively cheap psu/case/cooler combo.
Maybe I misunderstood but seems a far cry from €850.
Your prices are msrp for unused components.
On my local equivalent of ebay/amazon I can get a used 3080 10 GB for $390, ryzen 9 5900x $265, 32 GB DDR4 3200 mHz $170, new b550 mobo $80, 750w psu 80+ gold $70. $975 total. I didn’t count anything else coz a lot of people already have those things from their old PCs and they’re super cheep. For a full ~$1000 build add a $60 512 GB sata ssd. Cooler will set you back $15, same as a 1080p screen, case and m+k combo and a lot of the time you can get those things for free and they will last you a lifetime.
This is my first ever keyboard that I got for free from an office that was closing down and I use it to this day. Eventually I had to buy a PS/2 to USB dongle but that’s like $5. I have a 2nd spare one in case the 1st one breaks. I plan on using it till I die.
Same specs as you except 5800x3D. Same sentiments at 1440p.
Same here, except 64GB of RAM, I can’t even remember how much that cost 4 years ago but I’m afraid to check the receipt at this point.
You’ll be happy with the government supplied computers whether you like it or not.
It won’t be government supplied. You’ll buy a basic terminal from some big tech company, and then subscribe to a plan that will grant you access to remote processing, memory, and cloud storage. Think Google Stadia but for everything. Using a computer will be more like using, say, the PlayStation store. You won’t be able to install whatever you like - only what is made available. Piracy or adblocking will be impossible. Privacy and anonymity will become things of the past. Even news and information will be curated. And you’ll have to keep paying for it all in perpetuity, while being tracked and forced to consume manipulative, targeted advertising.
So… A Chromebook?
Or you can install linux.
Alternately, perhaps we can look forward to
You’ll be happy to rent the megacorporation owned and configured computers whether you like it or not.
Still to optimistic.
You’ll be happy to rent the megacorporation owned and configured remote interface for the corporate remote computing server which you will also happily pay a subscription to access wether you like it or not.
Thanks. I hate it.
Next up: MSI, ASUS, … are pulling out of the consumer market due to falling revenue causing major price hikes.
Here’s to hoping that it increases pressure to break the cartels and start getting the ball rolling on more independent foundries.
Problem I see with new foundries is that the profit is still going to be selling to data centers. It would take a philanthrope like Marc Cuban selling meds at cost, selling at a loss to enthusiasts.
Calling Marc Cuban a philanthrope feels icky, but he is doing a thing that I think is genuine.
It doesn’t matter as long a the supply continues to grow. It also helps make the rest of the world less dependent on a US hegemony that’s now going sour. When investment firms are buying up so much inventory for data centers that aren’t even operational, a big part of that exists as an excuse for market manipulation by the really big hitters that have their presence in those cartels anyway. Once they start feeding their own demise and market competition, they will back off pretty quickly and will likely saturate the market from the surplus inventory they are clearly hoarding under bullshit excuses to try to eliminate and buy up the nascent competition.
Do MSI and ASUS have enough corporate/enterprise sales to offset the loss of consumer demand? With the RAM companies the consumer crunch is caused by AI companies bidding up the price of raw memory silicon well beyond what makes financial sense to package and solder onto DIMMs (or even directly solder the packages onto boards for ultra thin laptops).
Asus is a significant ODM, supplying boards for brands like HP. I’m not sure what lines/models they make today, but they are a lot bigger than just their consumer lines.
Wow, I can’t believe my plan for a cheap motherboard worked.
If sales are going down, prices of the motherboards are going up.
Going to gouge all the midstream businesses in the long run. Hardware retailers, PC assemblers, all those little companies selling custom cases and overclock kits and fancy cooling appliances.
The lack of cheap but crucial components will have some ugly coat tails for the rest of the industry.
