gives me this vibe, just replace erdogan with trump and turkey with, you know, the US
Savvy countries will discover there’s a way to mitigate the harm incurred by Trump’s tariffs
They already have. It takes 1.5 to 2 years for trade deals to be negotiated and then put into effect. In the coming years when these deals take effect, and trade is routing itself around the US as much as possible rather than through it, people in the US are going to learn a very difficult economic lesson.
On the plus side, maybe the notion of American Exceptionalism will diminish a bit, which is long overdue.
On the plus side, maybe the notion of American Exceptionalism will diminish a bit, which is long overdue.
Hope is a powerful thing, and I fervently hope so!
As an American, I can’t wait for the lessons learned and the death to American Exceptionalism. I look forward to reaping everything we’ve sowed due to our shitty actions (or complete lack of action).
But also as an American I am bitter and don’t believe for a second that the 60-70% of people here that need to learn a lesson, will actually learn a lesson. I no longer believe things will change for the better within my lifetime. It sucks.
When you are too old to leave the country because you are too invested, not old enough to be dead before it gets really bad. So living through the next 40 years is going to be fucking grueling.
Kind of like elderly people in eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union?
Kind of like elderly people in eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union?
I no longer believe things will change for the better within my lifetime.
Funny. That was sort of the subject of a YT video I made today. Basically the whole of my working life has corresponded to the decline of economic liberty for the working class and working poor, so I don’t really celebrate New Years. I expect every year to be worse than the one before.
people in the US are going to learn a very difficult economic lesson.
And they will all blame whichever Dem happens to be in the white house because they all have the memories of goldfish.
Left and right will all blame everyone but themselves. Anything to not put in their own work or take current matters at hand.
Left and right will all blame everyone but themselves. Anything to not put in their own work or take current matters at hand.
both sides are the same lol.
get fucked. one tried to give us single payer insurance, you know, like a real country. the other gave us a child molester rapist con man and then let his cult followers smear shit in the capitol.
both sides are the same goddamn it’s so fucking ridiculous get fucked with a jackhammer
Not if said Dem actually does something about it. (Unlikely)
Problem is that, if we elect a Democrat, it will be a fabulously wealthy person with no empathy or understanding of the working class and working poor, so the likelihood that they will do anything about it is minimal. Remember when Obama had the balls to walk into Flint, pretend to drink a glass of water, and tell all of those people whose water had been poisoned that everything was a-okay? That’s what I mean. Zero empathy.
More importantly, the last dem expanded on Trump pt I’s tarriffs.
Unless the next candidate acknowledges this, why would voters have any faith that candidate won’t be another Biden?
Honestly didn’t know that. Could you point me to a source where I can read more about it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China–United_States_trade_war
2x Trump’s tarriff on solar panels, 3+x on evs, +25% on aluminum, batteries, and more
Not at all the same. That started as targeted tariffs as punishment for accusations of unfair trade. Tariffs have been frequently used in the past and targeted tariffs can be an important tool for specific types of trade issues. It did escalate into a trade war which didn’t help anyone, but with one specific country.
That’s not at all the same as widespread tariffs, including starting trade wars against important allies and trade partners
That’s the same bullshit justification Trump used. If the dems genuinely opposed with Trump’s trade war, they would have undone all his tariffs.
Thanks for sharing!
In my honest opinion, American exceptionalism should be dead and buried 6 feet under. And American patriotism and the American Dream should be revisited and revised and reformed
In my honest opinion, American exceptionalism should be dead and buried
Should be, but it’s such a deeply ingrained part of their national self image that it’ll take a few generations of consistent effort to make it fade away.
On the plus side, maybe the notion of American Exceptionalism will diminish a bit, which is long overdue.
And I have a pet conspiracy theory that this is intentional. American elites are secretly tired of exceptionalist sh*t and think it’s hurting them too. And thus have come up with a solution to return sobriety.
There was one of the conspiracy theories last year, that the goal was to disrupt trade enough to devalue the US dollar. Our shit would be cheaper on the global market and our salaries will be lower relative to other countries
Yes. Except this works only in dynamic, that is, while USD keeps devaluing compared to much of the world’s currencies and goods, that might help exports.
And also revitalize the economy by somewhat hurting speculative assets.
But IRL it’s a gamble, and those who have power keep power.
Trump using tariffs to balance trade of goods is out in the open. That should end exceptionalism. But they ignore services so it’s not entirely even.
Will soon begin? My brother in Christ, it’s begun at least 20 years ago.
The frog being slowly boiled alive effect. Nothing is wrong until it’s too late and it’s obvious to anyone.
This article is saying other countries should repeal their equivalents to the DMCA’s anti-curcumvention, just like Cory Doctorow says, and I agree too. The whole reason those counties passed DMCA-like laws was that we threatened to tariff them if they don’t. Well, now we’re tariffing them anyway. We’re no longer holding up our end of the bargain, and neither should anyone else.
Yes absolutely. Not even repeal the laws, just quietly stop enforcing them and look away while loudly whistling. Doing anything officially will only anger the bully. Just count on the bully’s short attention span and inattention to detail.
I’m not sure that’s the best solution, as if the law exists on the books companies will lobby fiercely to have it enforced. Definitely better than the status quo though.
The worst thing about unenforced laws is their ability to be selectively enforced against only the people the government doesn’t like.
Yeah that too, like those absurd loitering laws, like what even is loitering??
This shit wouldn’t be happening if Kamala had won.
We don’t want to be dependent of your shitty country
America has been on the decline for 20 years at least. The turnip in charge has accelerated the decline via tariffs but we’d just be moving slower towards the drain with Kamala in charge. She wasn’t exactly campaigning on large changes to the economy.
Since 1981 the large decline began. Like 80% of bad policies and shitting on the working class in america can be traced back to the 80s… I wonder what happened then.
Kamala would just have been a party line corporate puppet like Obama 2.0. But undoubtedly 100x better than trump.
Like 80% of bad policies and shitting on the working class in america can be traced back to the 80s… I wonder what happened then.
Rotten Ronnie Regan.
Drugs and crime.
Giuliani didnt clean up nyc… He called a favor and made it quiet then got used for this current American coup until he wasn’t needed and got kicked to the curb. Trump is probably in the same position. He’s tool, not a mastermind… His life right now is his the payment of a debt and when he is done being used he will be kicked to curb as well.
The more I learned about mafia life and authentic career and organized crime the more America makes sense.
Epstein didn’t get fucked over because of what he was doing, he was fucked over for what he knows and the loose ends started to unravel.
Understand crime and things make sense.
Kamala would have defended DMCA and Big Tech to the death. The only difference might have been a little less crypto grifting, but it’s nonsense to suggest there would have been a major difference on the issues this article is actually discussing.
The trends and forces would have been no different, but it was a choice between a collapse of empire versus a soft landing a la UK. They chose collapse.
I would not describe the state of the UK as a “soft landing”.
The state of the UK is fine?
Free healthcare, relatively low food prices, growing wages, one of the highest minimum wages on Earth, low income taxes, decent workers rights, low levels of violent crime.
There’s some not great things, like house prices, but as I understand it, that’s an issue in most of the developed world.
Near best minimum wage on earth, free healthcare and a moat to keep the French out? Could be worse.
Not my tempo. I was talking about the loss of a global empire. Many have called the UK’s a “soft landing”, but even the hardest collapses so far will have been a different level of scale from what America is cooking up for itself.
What, exactly, wouldn’t be happening if Harris had won?
For example, neither batshit tarrifs, nor insane dissolution of trust, if we’re talking purely about international economics.
Only that chances are that it’s the other way round. Trump was installed to sell the tariffs to the world.
neither batshit tarrifs,
That’s true. Harris, though, like Trump, wouldn’t be doing anything to regulate LLM’s or their financial fuckery, and that is going to be catastrophic when the game of financial musical chairs stops.
insane dissolution of trust
Also a good point. The American brand would be more or less intact, at least in the short-term, but I tend to think that all Harris would do is just maintain better PR, because her policies economically wouldn’t be different enough from Donald’s to keep the AI bubble from eventually popping. Democrats are just as in bed with billionaires as the Republicans, they just don’t seat them front-and-center at public events.
Not everybody is an AI single issue voter
That’s a bit of a disingenuous question, no?
What the hell do you think would not have happened?
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Doge?
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The unlawful deportations to random
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Ice?
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countries with torture prisons?
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War crimes in the Carribean?
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The multiple trade wars?
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The absolute dumping of all US allies off a cliff?
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Bombing Nigeria because reasons?
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The entire Epstein thing and the US president being a pedophile for the entire world to see?
And mind you, this is not a comprehensive list, I just gotta stop at some point or nobody will read it anymore.
Take a pick?
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The whole trade war thing i guess
Isn’t it fun living through the decline phase of our civilization?
I never expected USA to self destruct like they are now. It’s absolutely insane!
Electing Bush Jr. twice was crazy, but electing Trump twice is insane.
Following the trend of elections for the past few decades, USA is on a path to become a totalitarian country.
The Democrats may win the next presidential election if there is one, but if the trend continues, when the pendulum swings again, that will be the end of democracy for USA.It’ll get better when president Kirk and VP Minaj come through. /S
It was not unexpected. Most big powers in history end like that. The rich always want more and eventually start taking it from everybody else, even if it’s detrimental to the future of the nation.
Oh I absolutely expected USA to be surpassed by China at some point. And for USA to gradually lose international dominance.
But the shit USA is making for itself is turbocharging that process by at least a factor 10.
Some might say it doesn’t really make much difference because the end result remains the same. But the problem is that this doesn’t give the world the same amount of time to adjust. Disruption is generally bad, and disruption of world power is no exception.
Of course the worst disruption is to USA, and that will have a serious negative impact on American business, and if the US dollar loses the position as the world reserve currency, the significance of the American debt will be way more serious.We always heard that this would be China’s century, and for the most part I assumed “maayybe. We’ll see. It’d take a while for the US to decline.”
Little did I know the US would very quickly shoot both its feet off on its own.
I thought that if China were to become the dominant country it’d be through years and years of steady growth while the US was doing the same. They’d just end up overtaking in the long run — not that the US would actively sabotage itself via bigotry and stupidity and greed.
Complete self own. And everyone in charge is a giant coward. We could start righting the ship today, but all the elected gop (and some dem) officials are greedy cowards.
It feels like the elite are doing one last big haul before they’re out of there, looking for new regions to exploit.
Unless the EU gets rapidly closer to China I doubt it. We’ll probably see the general Euro Zone vs. China for the century.
biggest thing for the rest of the world is our sovereign debt crisis. greece nearly drug down the EU when theirs popped off, and their entire economy was/is just exporting crude and ripping off the occasional tourist.
USD is the cornerstone to the entire western financial system, not to mention the countries position as one of worlds largest importers and facilitater of international trade as a whole…
greece nearly drug down the EU when theirs popped off,
Erh no! Don’t trust the sensationalist stories about the Euro collapsing for this or that reason. Those stories are always without merit, my guess is they serve a purpose for speculation or are just sensationalist stories.
USD is the cornerstone to the entire western financial system
What are you smoking? It doesn’t make a hoot of difference to the rest of the world to trade in another currency. But more likely than not, it won’t be a single currency replacing USD, it will be a basket of currencies where USD will probably be a part.
In Europe the Euro totally dominates the financial market and has done for years. I think you mean the currency for trade, and for that the Euro obviously dominates in Europe.there’s so much wealth/debt obligations tied up in USD, your the one smoking something if you think a US sovereign debt crisis finally popping off doesn’t drag a large chunk of west down with it.
It was inevitable and kind of expected.
The US wasn’t built on that solid of a foundation. In fact the founding fathers have said explicitly that said foundation - the Constitution itself - should be a living document updated regularly by the people, for the people, to reflect the changes in the world and in the people themselves. It was literally written at one of the most prominent times of change, so of course those who saw said change and were responsible for enacting it, weren’t idiots who thought things would never change!
The first cracks appeared in the US a hundred years later with the industrial revolution kicking into high gear and transforming the so far mostly rural, self-sufficient communities into manufacturing giants. That’s when factory and mining towns began to boom, and when the US truly began to claim its world power status - without adjusting the laws of course since it benefited the handful few who managed to get their fingers deep into those oh so lucrative pies.
And it’s not like there haven’t been warning signs of the impending capitalist doomsday. Capitalism was literally built on the back of the industrial revolution (which allowed the means of production to transfer into and concentrate in private hands), and immediately people saw the issue with it - no wonder Marx saw the need to work out a competing socioeconomic system that, if you think about it, was truly in the spirit of the American independence and the US Constitution (aka by the people, for the people).
All that capitalist rush? That allowed a handful of people to become obscenely rich, without the curtails of previous obscenely rich (aka kings, royalty, nobles), allowing them to grab power without any of the responsibility. Kings paid with their heads for their wrong decisions, but in the US, that was deemed excessive, so instead y’all elected people who then got paid off by said obscenely rich to go against the people electing them… and the worst that happens was that the elected official got rich, then got replaced by another who got bought out the same way.
And all that money/power concentrated in such a small number of hands would ALWAYS lead to them wanting more and more until they sucked the host dry like a parasite. There’s no symbiosis with capitalists because wealth (resources and man-hours) are finite, unlike their greed. And since the US made it harder and harder to amend the constitution, to make that document truly living and serve the people… The fall thus became inevitable.
It blows my mind that people think America can be saved. Especially if they think it can be saved by voting.
Americans are still drunk, and still drinking, but aren’t at the spins yet and they haven’t thought at all about the hangover. They are still blissful with arrogance and ego.
Studying the revolutionary war reveals a bunch of rich propagandists using lies and violence to manipulate the people into forming a country for the wealthy by the wealthy.
The first President of the US was well on his way to becoming the first billionaire adjusted for inflation. All the things they said were pretty much lies as no one was ever equal in our classist society and our first major moves were to genocide an entire race of people.
The cracks and rot were present in our founding slaveholding abusive fucking illegitimate “fathers” who sold the people a lie just like our current reps do.
This is what happens when 2 generations of lead poisoning brain rot compose the majority of the voting population while the younger generations adopt universal apathy and nihilism
USA is on a path to become a shit-hole country - FTFY.
Always has been. Just with a lot of facade and flag waving. Facade is getting trashed and you’re starting to see what flags really stand for.
USA already has widespread poverty, the longest work hours, lacks free healthcare and education, has the lowest life expectancy among economically comparable countries, has a dysfunctional democracy and AFAIK the greatest inequality among rich democracies.
So USA is already a shit-hole country, and among shit hole countries, totalitarian countries are the absolute worst.
If you think people have it bad now, especially below middle class, you just wait and see what it will be like if USA becomes a totalitarian country!There is no middle class. Either you have to work to pay your bills and you are a worker or people works for you to pay your bills and you are an owner.
Right but you can’t admit that as truth because it’s not patriotic. Like when pieces of shit dress nice and go to church.
That was a decade ago. With trump and Biden at the helm, we hit that point already. Between trump showing that there is no bottom to the depths that conservatives will sink to and *Biden showing that there’s no consequences for openly breaking the law, we are a fucking joke at best.
* Yes, I know congress stopped a lot that. But Biden could have pushed harder against the Republicans or even just not rolled over and go back to business as usual with the weakest of weak sauce attempts at accountability. I mean, Merrick fucking Garland?!?! The failed compromise pick from a decade prior as the head of the investigation?
I hate that the Democrats are the best national response we have to this shit. Local community organization helps, but goddamn if this situation isn’t disheartening.
next we get Alex Jones/Tucker Carleson ticket, which wins because establishment Dems try to push Hillary on america again
End of USA will be net positive for human civilization and its not even close
No. It won’t be. But things change. Some buildings crumble. Some are reinforced and kept standing. Where there were streets, new buildings are erected. Where there were rivers and bulwarks, streets are made with pipes underneath.
So this particular building will have to change to avoid crumbling. Well, as it always happens.
Yes, it will
Civilization? Nah just the collapse of one empire. The rest of the world goes on.
The collapse of the United States would have devastating effects on every other country. everywhere you go in the world, you notice people paying very close attention to what’s happening in America
The US won’t go quietly into the night. A desperate US is a scary prospect with a military several orders larger and better equipped than the rest of the world combined.
Until the US eliminates it’s military budget the rest of the world would be wise to watch their backs.
A devastating deficiency of being bombed and couped lol, be serious
Maybe real art and entertainment would come back. Like authentic culture, not focused-grouped monetized culture formed into a legal crack that sucks the soul from society and the idea of reason.
Don’t get my hopes up
Rather arrogant to believe the US falling means the decline of our entire civilisation.
Lol; that’s what the EU common people said about too big to fail, too.
The truth I think is that all these 1st world societies are basically all collapsing slowly because they took too much from authentic humanity instead of nurturing it. I feel like most people are so far gone they couldn’t even begin to connect with their honest human self outside of the traditional indoctrination we all receive from our national cultures.
I feel like most people are so far gone they couldn’t even begin to connect with their honest human self outside of the traditional indoctrination we all receive from our national cultures.
Thinking about Lemmy and most people around me, it seems like it.
I’m so happy to be in the EU. Good luck over there! BTW we had like 100 collapses and 1000 wars before we got to where we are…
Don’t get complacent. The EU countries are toying with the idea of collapsing with us. AfD doesn’t seem to be shrinking, and there will be a lot of money and propaganda dumped that way soon.
I hope you’re better at resisting it than we were, but seeing as how we’re all still on vulnerable social media…
If the US falls, EU’s far right parties will have a big problem. No more money from the US.
Once the oligarchs have picked the bones over here, the EU is next. They’re like a virus that must keep consuming.
True, idiocy is universal. You can see the roaches crawling out of the rocks already.
Yeah, nothing is written in stone for sure, and I hope our american friends will figure it out, and that we’ll motor through all this bullshit.
How can you say this with a straight face? All fascist parties have record numbers, workers rights are being targeted across the board, digital privacy is a thing of the past. We’re like barely half a step behind. The oligarchy doesn’t care about states or continents. The EU is on the menu just as much as the US
For sure. The nations are just tools. People don’t understand there’s another level. Most aren’t taught or think enough to understand that the real “game” is above nations, the nations are basically businesses and tools for those willing to play the real “game”. And the citizens of those nations are just basically free-range workers/cattle.
The further you zoom out from your microcosm of life the more fucked up it is. You can see the nation herding people. 90s individualism wasn’t freedom, it was marketed lifestyles to further categorize groups of people like a dog herding sheep into the next free-range pen. People think psychology isn’t a tool used to control… They think the choices that are given to them are freedom. What do people think is happening with the data mined??? People are so far removed from the idea of playing the “game” that they don’t understand they are now the pawns being played in the “game”.
Yes, and us unionists are fighting back. What, do you think we’re all just sitting on our arses with our heads up rectums?
If a fascist takes over the Danish government I’m going to riot, and I know which friends to call on to make it happen too.
You can PM me too if it comes to that.
I’m in France so I’m already used to it and ready to restart.
You know most Americans are descendants of that historical lesson too right?
Well, most don’t seem to remember it at all. It’s why you are in this situation.
Netflix and chill? Let’s watch the game. Want to go shopping, I need more useless nicknaks to distract me because that’s the easiest low hanging fruit way to give reason for my life. I’m not living for me, I’m just a cog in this game that keeps them able to play with my life for their profits.
I’m an EU citizen.
Correction : they.
Yeah I know, seems they missed what we learned the last century (or so I hope, that we learned something).
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“Civilization” is a big word for a collection of selfish pillagers who barely tolerate each other. It’s certainly “fun” for the rest of the world, lol.
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Over the past two decades, the office of the US Trade Representative–which is responsible for developing and coordinating US international trade, commodity, and direct investment policy—has pressured most of the world into adopting these laws, hamstringing foreign startups that might compete with Apple (by providing a jailbreaking kit that installs a third-party app store), or Google (by blocking tracking on Android devices), or Amazon (by converting Kindle and Audible files to formats that work on rival apps), or John Deere (by disabling the systems that block third-party repairs), or the Big Three automakers (by decoding the encrypted error messages mechanics need to service our cars). The rents that these digital locks help American companies extract run to hundreds of billions of dollars every single year.
The world’s governments agreed to protect this racket in exchange for tariff-free access to American markets. Now that the US has reneged on its side of the bargain, these laws serve no useful purpose.In 2026, many countries will respond to tariffs like they were still in the 19th century. But a few countries will have the vision, the boldness, and the political smarts to kick Donald Trump right in the dongle. The country that gets there first will enjoy the same relationship to, say, third-party app stores for games consoles, that Finland enjoyed in relation to mobile phones during the Nokia decade.
Hear, hear!
It would be good (and for the US as well), but it’s possible the ship has sailed.
See, such racket schemes, if we use the tone of the article which I mostly agree with, are benefit not only to such US companies. They have already become popular and they will continue to be used.
So no. Unless suddenly a few liberal-democratic revolutions happen and everyone suddenly feels peaceful and reasonable.
Late to the party? A little slow? Where have you been, author?
Trump didn’t cause it but he sure as hell accelerated its decline.
That happened the second capitalists got a chance to move their factories to other countries.
Who’s going to dominate trade? Cos people are hoping it won’t be an authoritarian state like China.
China is already the biggest trade partner of most of the world.
It’ll be China.
Won’t be China for long anyways, I think India will dominate soon ish, and keep your eyes out for Mexico
Why does any one country need to dominate trade?
A much better outcome would be that more countries have a larger number of trading partners rather than one behemoth monopolizing all trade.
Unless we live in a one-world government, the default set up is the Thucydides trap where one state tends to dominate.
If by people you mean feds and idiots then sure, personally I’m looking forward to more high speed rail
Thanks. 👍 💖
Praying for fall of USA🙏🙏
