If I’m remembering correctly, Pepe will be appearing in the upcoming Coyote vs Acme movie.
Why is Ghandi there? The show itself was canceled, it’s been so long, anyone care to explain?
They had to remove him from the reboot cuz people got butthurt.
It was already said about Troy Mclure. I’m still annoyed that a 3rd rate Indian comedian said “Apu is making us all look bad” Ahh yes Apu who is literally the hardest working person (besides Smithers) Apu a man who had 5 women dating him at one time. A man who got the hottest girl ever (The Squishish girl)… They decided that was offensive and against their race.
All I’ve got is “OI MISTER PRIME MINISTER” and “900 DOLLARYDOOS???”
I guess I’m entitled because 900 dollarydoos is fucking hilarious and I love being insulted.
I have some long lost Scottish heritage (ask the English and the Catholic Church why I can’t look up my history) and I Absolutely love everything about Groundskeeper Willie even his creepy phase of filming couples in their cars… "EVERY SCOTTISH PERSON DOS EET’
That’s a bloody outrage it is! Hey Tony!!
Don’t forget that Apu was an excellent hard-working, small business owning, immigrant father.
Maybe that WAS the problem.
Ahh yes Apu who is literally the hardest working person (besides Smithers)
It’s reinforcing a stereotype. Apu was an interesting character when they expanded him, but he dealt with a lot of stereotypes and had a white guy voicing a fairly stereotypical guy.
Hank Azaria (or whoever it is voicing him) is cool with it, maybe check out his perspective
I’m sometimes a bit concerned that I do buy into the “white actors voice them better” trope.
I think last major instance I recall is Widowmaker from Overwatch. The fake French accent is generally much easier to hear their lines through, and they can build their vocal focus on the “sexy spy” theme.
It could be just that English actors are better at understanding cultural expectations to build on for their audience. I’ve had a hard time building investment in some characters with certain heavy native accents, which is tricky to think about.
I think preventing people from playong around with accemts and voices from other cultures is fascist, kills play, and blocks some pathways to empathy.
i guess we could do genetic testing before casting paid roles so all intended accemts will be allowed.
blocks some pathways to empathy.
explain how, postmate Dumbass.
this whole thing sounds like desert camel music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR511iAedYU
Don’t worry, you don’t need to watch the whole thing. He repeats his point multiple times :
Basically, by catering to generic ideas instead of authentic ones, you are being robbed of cultural exposure and reinforcing biases and simple perspectives you have instead of growing.
Yeah, when someone does a stereotypical accent you associate with something, it conforms more to your ideas of how your language sounds when made by a foreigner. It doesn’t make you understand what the accent actually sounds like, and WHY it sounds that way. It’s nice for you, because it panders to you, instead of treating you like an adult.
Also, it’s disingenuous to bring french accents into this, since the main problem is that the stereotypes being presented of ethnic minorities are often used to ridicule them, and deny them prosperity. That’s the difference, the french guy is ,moving from one well of place to the next and people aren’t going to deny him promotions or whatever. However, to Indian people, or children of Indians, patterns of bullying and marginalisation still exist and are exasperated by the stereotypes.
I’m pretty sure ‘dollarydoos’ is honourary Aussie now. It was in Bluey.
Aside from public remove reason, that character was become boring. I would expected them to remove him anyway
Making fun of nationalities is fine as long as it is funny enough.
Somehow, Lisa Miller has returned
Eddsworld! Neat
Te be fair, Troy McClure stopped appearing after his voice actor was killed.
Same for Isaac Hayes (Chef), though less murdered and more natural causes.
Chef was written out for being a hypocritical scientologist who was fine with trashing everyone up until they put cruise in the closet. They killed him off in a you ain’t ever coming back way. He died two years after they killed him off in the show.
I think you’re forgetting two key factors here: one is that he suffered a stroke in 2006 and didn’t really do much of ANY work after that. According to one of his
11 sons3 sons (out of 11 kids, holy shit my dude), Isaac Hayes III:Isaac Hayes did not quit South Park; someone quit South Park for him. What happened was that in January 2006 my dad had a stroke and lost the ability to speak. He really didn’t have that much comprehension, and he had to relearn to play the piano and a lot of different things. He was in no position to resign under his own knowledge. At the time, everybody around my father was involved in Scientology — his assistants, the core group of people. So someone quit South Park on Isaac Hayes’ behalf. We don’t know who. … My father was not that big of a hypocrite to be part of a show that would constantly poke fun at African-American people, Jewish people, gay people — and only quit when it comes to Scientology. He wouldn’t be that hypocritical.
Now whether you choose to believe all that or not is up to you, but the other key factor you forgot to consider is that Scientology IS a cult. From the limited amount of data we’ve been able to gleam from their internal workings, they have a habit of forcing their members to constantly push themselves beyond their limits, regardless of what any medical doctor would advise; because in their warped worldview, all faults or shortcomings, mental and physical, are all just the result of Thetans and can be overcome, regardless of the health of the individual. We have some anecdotes of people who have left with claims that the ‘Chirch’ would use typical cult behaviors that all amounted to increased control over their victims: borderline starvation, massive amounts of physical exercise to promote exhaustion, recontextualizing their worldview to make all this horseshit more acceptable, etc.
Anyway, my point is, Hayes died at the age of 65 after a recurrence of the previously mentioned stroke and was found lying on the floor next to a still-running treadmill. In my (unprofessional) opinion, Scientology killed him, simple as that. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was deliberate, nor that Hayes was ENTIRELY guilt-free (he did still join them initially), but the fact is that the last several years of his life were almost completely controlled for him and the people behind those decisions clearly put the CoS first and Hayes at a very distant second
Edit: I originally misspoke and said Hayes had 11 sons. He had 11 children, but only 3 were sons
None of it was mentioned at the time. It seems more likely it is revisionist history. Which is understandable since its originating from the family. I know what scientology is. As I know what a cult is. A cult is a small unpopular religion. A religion is a large popular cult. Which one hubbards brainfart low grade fantasy fiction falls under is debatable and redundant. He gave up his control and that is on him and only him. Blaming a MLM scheme hiding as a religion for a death is pointless since there was nothing that prevented him from breaking away as others have done.
If you call that revisionist history, then what do you call the fact that immediately after his first stroke, his PR team (heavily associated with Scientology) tried to claim that he merely suffered from an episode of “high blood pressure and exhaustion” only for the truth to be revealed 6 months later that it was indeed a stroke?
He gave up his control and that is on him and only him.
Like I said in my initial comment, he did choose to join them on his own free will, so we’re in agreement there. But I also said that his last few years (i.e. everything post-'06 stroke) was controlled by the Scientologists when he was not in a position to tell them to fuck off, even if he wanted to (which admittedly, would be debatable). They saw an opening and ran with it, that was my point; you’re claiming that he willingly gave up all his autonomy and I simply don’t agree with that. Or at least he was not mentally sound enough to be able to do so, just like how putting rohypnol in someone’s drink doesn’t equal “yes means yes”
Blaming a MLM scheme hiding as a religion for a death is pointless since there was nothing that prevented him from breaking away as others have done.
Simply because some have broken ties with the cult doesn’t mean that all members have the same options to break away as the fortunate few. ESPECIALLY if the majority of the people around him, those controlling his perception of the outside world, were actively trying to keep him in. A core fundamental philosophy from Hubbard himself was to draw in as many celebrities as possible for the express purpose of using them to prostelytize his works. Plus, and let’s be frank here, Hayes was not in the prime of his life anymore; he wasn’t so far gone as to be labeled “decrepit” or “on death’s door” at the time of his death, but even if he was living completely alone and didn’t have Church members constantly surrounding/influencing him, it’s hard to say whether or not he would’ve had the opportunity to leave.
I mean, come on man, the Church literally encourages members to “disconnect” with all aspects and people of their former lives who are not themselves members. It’s also pretty common knowledge that anyone who leaves is not only shunned by the organization (which, if the disconnection was effective) had been the basis for their entire lives for a long time by that point; they’re also contantly harassed, stalked, and occasionally threatened directly from still-current members. Even if those actions aren’t technically ordered to be done by the leaders, they still happen regularly without any condemnation or comment from the top brass. And this isn’t even getting into the multiple deaths they are DIRECTLY responsible for, or the fact that Shelly Miscavige (the wife of the current head of rhe Church) has not publicly been seen ANYWHERE by ANYONE since 2007. Or Operation Snow White in the 1970s where up to 5,000 individual members worked to get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government for the explicit and stated purpose of covering up Hubbard’s and the Church’s more controversial practices. If they can manage to pull all that shit off and still somehow get away without the most minor of consequences, I’m sure they can manage to draft the equivalent of a Termination of Emploment, convince a perpetually confused Isaac into signing it, and then sending it off to the South Park offices.
tl;dr You’re forgetting the most important single line from that episode of South Park:
We shouldn’t be mad at Chef. We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains
Chef was written out because Isaac Hayes lost his shit when South Park went hard on Scientology. They killed off the character well before Hayes died.
IDK What suit your talking about. Isaac Hayes suffered a stroke after the episode aired, and the Church of Scientology released a statement on his behalf. Hayes’ son set the record straight over a decade after his dad died. Here’s the tweet.
For over 14 years, people have speculated about why my father @isaachayes left South Park. I’m here to set the record straight. My dad did not quit South Park. Scientology did.
After the episode Trapped in the Closet aired in 2005, my father suffered a stroke just a few months later that left him unable to speak or make decisions on his own. He was not in any condition to resign from anything. The truth is, someone else within his Scientology circle made that decision and quit the show for him.
He loved being the voice of Chef. He loved the character. He loved connecting with fans. He would joke with people who recognized his voice, and he truly enjoyed being part of the show.
The narrative that he quit because he was offended by the satire is not true. That was a cover story created by others. My father never got to speak for himself because his health robbed him of that chance.
So now I am speaking for him. He did not leave South Park willingly. He was forced out by illness and by people who did not have his best interest at heart.
This is for anyone who loved Chef. This is for anyone who admired my father’s work. This is the truth about what really happened.
Here is the original tweet. Hayes son has also said this in an interview.
Hayes previously stated that although he didn’t like those jokes, he got them and still liked being a part of the show. I’m pretty sure South Park made jokes about Scientology before this episode. So why wouldn’t he have left earlier if that was what he had a problem with?
Here is even more info about it.
So we can all stop down voting OP for being correct.
Lol I love how you and I basically made the same arguments against two different people trying to shift blame away from Scientology. It’s almost like nobody listened to Kyle when he said the most important line from that episode aka Matt and Trey talking directly to the audience:
We shouldn’t be mad at Chef. We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains
Guess wikipedia has it all wrong then. Random internet stranger is better than wikipedia.
Did you read the same page as I did? Because if you actually read the entire section about his departure, it not only mentions the fact that he had his first stroke right before the episode aired (after which he didn’t really do too much of ANY work at all until his death 2 years later from a second stroke) but also that the decision largely stemmed from his entourage, all ardent Scientologists; a group famous for coercing members into disconnecting from everyone outside of the Church upon joining as well as harassing the shit out of them if they ever get find the strength to leave. One of Hayes’ sons even came forth and said that in all the confusion, nobody really knows who made the decision for him to leave, but it was almost definitely someone from that group.
I mean this is a cult with a long and varied history of doing whatever it takes for good PR, even going so far as to have up to 5,000 individual members get jobs in various branches of the US (and Canadian) government throughout the whole of the 70s for the explicit purpose of covering up/erasing controversial material against Hubbard himself and the Church as a whole (just google Operation Snow White). If they can pull that off and somehow walk away with minimal consequences, I’m sure they could find someone to draft up a “Termination of Emploment” or something and convince/trick/coerce Hayes into signing it.
No, Chef was removed at the request of one of his family members because of his association with Scientology. Isaac Hayes died two years after the removal of Chef.
didn’t isaac hayes have an argument with matt and trey, because hayes was a massive figure in the scientology space, and south park making an episode criticising scientology? that’s what i heard.
edit: just saw the replies below. Yes, i thought so.
Ah. Thanks
I recall Matt and Trey said he wasn’t all that upset, he just wouldn’t take part in that specific episode. But then after the episode aired there was a falling out. But maybe he had a stroke?
I’m not 100% on the deets, but i know there was something about scientology. He did have a stroke though, but that was after the south park/scientology stuff though.
Yeah details are sketchy on this. But from what Matt and Trey have said it was only after the episode aired there was a problem, and it was probably CoS that told him he couldn’t be on the show anymore.
The episode where Chef is turned into Darth Vader kinda indicates it’s something like this if you read between the lines. Weirdly sad episode because you can tell Matt and Trey missed him and really wanted him to come back.
so is lindsey graham
I haven’t watched the Simpsons in SOOOOO long. They really benched Apu?
Watching this video made me realise that benching Apu was a mistake. Because as a character, he is not punched down on, he is reliably one of the more considerate and nuanced characters in the show. He’s not a Cletus-like character, and the jokes about his Indian heritage are not mean spirited.
As much as I think Apu is a fine character, hotdiggedydemon went alt-right culture wars a long time ago.
I must’ve missed this? What has he said which made you think about him like this?
His “eat the rich” video was enough. Honestly, I never liked his old pony.mov videos either. He always seemed like an ironic mlp fan.
These videos are examples of his alt-right membership?
Also, what do you think the Eat The Rich video means exactly?
Did you watch the documentary itself, or did you just watch that 45 minute takedown of it presented by a white guy wearing USA flag shorts telling us why he thinks Hari Kondabolu doesn’t understand racism?
I did watch the docco, and unfortunately it doesn’t really make it’s case coherently or entertainingly. That’s pretty bad because the creator is meant to be a comedian, and he really should have been able to ruin Shearer’s career but he’s just not all that great.
As for Apu, the reason he sucks is that he started as a caricature but somehow ended up a main character, and the creators have kind of painted themselves in a corner. Is he meant to be a wacky stereotype like the Italian chef, or are we meant to have pathos, like Skinner? Add that to the fact that there just aren’t many Indians on screen, and you have Apu as mostly the only Indian representation on TV.
It’s anachronistic, orientalist, and just a bit lame to do jokes like that. Heck, it was lame when they created the character, that’s why the specific note was not to make him Indian, but Shearer did it anyway.
Evidently you dont know Max, he is very self aware, and is a leftist.
That character you see there on the screen isn’t an animated version of himself, it’s a character - he’s far more pityful than the real Max, and references in this video how his own appearance is going to trigger judgement, as he looks like a skinhead.
In any case, I don’t need to watch the documentary fully, if its ideas are represented fairly, right?
So, then, does it present the ideas of the documentary fairly?
Because you are inferring it doesn’t, even though you likely haven’t watched the video I posted.
The voice actor maybe felt bad about being a white guy reinforcing indian stereotypes, or maybe felt pressured, but either way decided that he wasn’t going to voice him anymore, and they decided not to replace him and instead just never give Apu a line again.
Yeah, all those stereotypes of Indian people being successful business owners, loving husbands, dedicated fathers, and all around decent folks really give the wrong idea about Indian people.
Thanks. Not replacing him was an odd choice, though.
not so much; the topic had kind of become a whole thing within the comedy/entertainment circuit on account of Hari Kondabolu making a documentary about it.
It was a detailed and nuanced discussion about the wider nature of invisible racism, and therefore attracted a ton of kneejerk reactions from people who hadn’t watched it but sure as hell had opinions. In the end it was just easier to let it lie than get tied up in an intractable discussion on whether an Indian person playing up an Indian stereotype for the entertainment of a mainstream audience is still harmful or not
Yep. And Hank Azaria has a fuckton of other characters to voice, and there’s a huge universe, so no Apu isn’t really a show killing problem.
Let Brockmire take over the Quicky Mart…
this would be a fun take
Writing the show while various groups without any sense of humor move goalposts around is what killed the show. Make no mistake, it may still airing, but it’s been garbage for a long time.
while various groups without any sense of humor move goalposts
aw did someone ick your yum? did someone say “hey that’s racist as fuck” and were right, so society moved on and it left you back in the 70s rofls?
various groups without any sense of humor… jfc…
oops looks like we found the people left behind.
no Apu isn’t really a show killing problem
Can’t say the same about the writing tho 😅
FORREAL
I just… sometimes reel when thinking about how long it’s been really bad… like, phoned in, then joked about phoning it in, then cozyed into how lazy it could all be… imho makes a great argument nothing should last 10+ seasons
I agree. The worst part is how good it was at its peak too. Hard to watch how much of a hollow and soulless production it is now.
F
Lisa Miller is in the latest Scott Pilgrim game.
What are you talking about. Apu’s right there. Ice got him.
Nope that’s Gandhi from Clone High.
Who’s in the red sweatshirt?
Tord from Eddsworld
Tord is back (e.g. in the end or tords next big adventure)in eddsworld and was allways at least a repeated cammeo
Yeah but didn’t he move back to Canada at some point making it difficult for them to include him?
Tord from Eddsworld
Who is the handsome cat?
Not sure if serious or not, it’s Pepé le Pew. He’s a rapey skunk and French stereotype (but I repeat myself).
Rapey skunk
But enough about the US president…
Merde…
For anybody not familiar, he was a Loony Tune. His gimmick was he would fall helplessly in love with any black cat who happened to get white paint on her (or possibly his, not here to judge) back.
Pepé was very…self-imposing. To put it mildly. He would not last long in a “No means no” world.
But I’d never thought it’d be 1am, and I’d be a 41 year old man proactively explaining horny skunks to kids on the internet who have never experienced it first hand.
I just thought about the whole pepe thing last week and i don’t really get it to be honest. I loved looney tunes as a kid, don’t really care for it now, and have no reason to defend pepe at all. But ifeel like removing him was just a weak ass attempt to pretend to be the good guys. He was certainty problematic and all, but that was the whole point. He was never the good guy, or the funny guy. Even as a child i realised that he was scummy and odd. I’m oly going off memory here from a show i watched over 30 years ago, but he was never really endorsed or bugs bunny never told him that he’s cool and he ahould just continue to force himaelf on that cat. He was a caricature of a slimebag that probably every girl and woman at least once in their lifetime encounters. Removing him is just like saying these people don’t exist, don’t worry. I know it’s not that deep, but to me it feels like when they removed the D&D episode from community where señor chan painted his face black because he was a dark elf and then felt good about themselves because they solved racism.
It’s easier to erase than to fix
Imagine being a little girl growing up watching that. The message is that someone sexually harassing you and refusing to take a “no” is common and normal. Just an annoyance.
Back then it was common, and if not normal in all places, certainly something everyone just had to “deal with”. However, even some people pushed back against it.
Unfortunately a major political movement is normalizing it again now. Probably better to remember the trope and discuss it rather than bury it. But, it’s a kids show, so it doesn’t need to be in the rotation in every kid’s constantly running digital baby sitter I suppose.
Probably better to remember the trope and discuss it rather than bury it.
I think the way to do that is have it called out on the show. Model that kind of good bystander behavior.
Like, right now we have a president that has raped multiple women and children. His appointees and cronies have also raped women and children. It’s critical to be talking to kids about consent.
I want to believe a kid isn’t so dumb, but its also possible a boy see it and goes
“Oh wouldn’t it be funny to act like this to my crush?”
Which just reinforces the whole cycle.
Yes, kids are constant emulators, if anything. Except terrible speed and accuracy. Lots of glitches.
Sometimes surprising results though. My kid somehow memorized the lyrics to the SSBU song. I thought they were in Japanese until he sung it…but my ears suck especially at her pitch and with her style.
The truth is, he just wasn’t that popular of a character. He had literally one gimmick and it got old, fast. I don’t think I ever heard anyone say he was their favorite. People skipped his episodes so they needed a reason to get rid of him and the whole “me too” thing was a good way to score political points with the public while also getting rid of a one-dimensional character most people didn’t care about.
I wish I could remember the name of the novel. It’s pretty recent.
Author and hero are both gay men. The hero is fighting a vampire/zombie/cannibal cult. Book is full of massacres, torture, and about a dozen human sacrifices.
There’s a trigger warning about bad language at the start of the book.
One of the moms in my wife’s mom-clique…the one everyone talks about behind her back…is super religious (Catholic). Their kids all go to private school.
They went to go see a movie, I think it was Lightyear, and her daughter (who at 8 is already giving me “this girl will grow up to be a butch lesbian” vibes) asks about the part where a girl married another girl.
Which, if you ever saw the movie, was a huge deal to the religious right, even though it was literally the tiniest part of the whole movie (and ultimately unnecessary to the plot, which is probably why they made such an uproar over DEI).
Anyways the mom immediately shot it down saying that girls can’t fall in love with other girls and they absolutely cannot marry each other.
I feel really bad for that girl. And their older son, who is very likely mildly autistic, an absolutely brilliant kid, but getting a true Catholic school education and will talk my ear off about the great flood. He’s getting pretty suspicious of creationism so maybe there’s hope for him yet.
But alas, I also don’t want to overstep as a parent.
I feel like Fifi from Tiny Tunes was supposed to be a more PC Pepe, but they had absolutely no ideas to make her more of a thing. Did she even have a gimmick? I just remember her name and that she was purple.
Pepe wasn’t meant to be a kids’ cartoon. When he was created cartoons ran in theaters before the main movie came on. The jokes were written on an adult level. The Tiny Toons were supposed to be for children. Kind of hard to put a nymphomaniac into a G-rated show.
Oh I knew that, I’ve seen it before getting to the age of 43 kiddo :)
I just never saw the French attitude because I was French (still is), hence the “merde”.
My name isn’t from that cartoon (Pépé le putois) but from a certain plant… I was a teenager when I choose it. Now that I’m an irresponsible adult I tell people that it’s Skunk the animal and I use cute skunks as profile pictures.
But that’s a lie, let it be our little secret 🤫
