This became relevant specially after 2023
Because things aren’t improving. Windows 11 is a bloated buggy mess loaded with privacy issues. They change things that have been working fine for years or decades or introduce new features that no one asked for and only get in the way and they don’t even test the changes properly to get bugs out. It’s clear they do not have users interests in mind and things are only getting worse as time goes on. The ship is sinking and Linux is the only lifeboat available.
Windows 11 has a massive keylogger built in. For decades we associated them with malware and now Windows is trying to normalize it as “good for the user.”
They say it’s off by default. But that’s like me having the detonation for a nuke casually sitting on my desk. Sure I could just not hit the button but I don’t want that shit in the same zip code as me.
I switched a year ago, after trying and failing multiple times over the years whenever I gave it a try.
- Linux has massively improved, systemd is a lot cleaner than the mess of disparate shell scripts it displaced. Network Manager is also a lot nicer now than I remember it being when it was first introduced into Red Hat.
- Windows hasn’t, in a lot of ways it was actually regressing. I used to get multiple shell crashes a week with no insight as to why, friends would claim it was just me but then receive an update and start having similar crashes. Also noticeable UI issues that went unfixed for multiple revisions, made it felt cheap.
- MS went all in on AI garbage and was jamming it into everything, kept getting popup notifications and the like to try Copilot, notifications went from being useful to just being an ad delivery mechanism.
- Gaming on Linux massively improved, last time I tried it OpenGL support was a mess. Now OpenGL is very mature, and all the D3D translation stuff uses Vulkan which has been rock solid for me. I’ve found games run better than they did on Windows on the same hardware, and the only game I’ve had an issue with was Destiny 2, which is intentional on the devs behalf (Luckily the game’s boring now)
I find I’m a lot more willing to let issues slide though, like I’ve had some Thunar crashes which I’m cool with since there’s like 4 devs maintaining it, vs. the multi-billion dollar company working on Explorer which I expect better from. Also unsurprisingly the only actual shop-stopper issue I’ve had was with a memory leak in the Nvidia drivers, the actual FLOSS stuff has been great.
Copilot. Win11 working only on mew hardware. Win10 going out of support. Basic bloated operation with little concern for what users want.
You’re in a linux loving, windows hating bubble here on Lemmy. There is no significant number of people migrating from windows to linux according to any metric we have.
Linux is growing according to the data, but at a slow pace https://www.gamingonlinux.com/steam-tracker/#engsplitanchor
https://www.pornhub.com/insights/2024-year-in-review#devices-tech
But according to PornHub… so is Windows
Because Valve showed people that linux is not so bad after all. Might be also that people can ask ChatGPT for help and Microsoft is financing it’s own funeral.
The short version is 2 reasons:
- Microsoft requires Windows 11 computers to have special new hardware that not all computers have. Security updates for Windows 10 ends in 3 months. Many people are faced with a choice of buying a new computer, or installing Linux on their current one to save money. Others realize how much Windows 11 sucks shit and switch because Linux is better.
- Gaming on Linux has gotten a lot better recently. For many people, this was the main thing holding them back. Software support in general is better than ever.
Because windows won’t do with old laptops and 3 years is apparently enough to consider a laptop old nowadays.
The fact they keep trying harder and harder to make me switch off a local account is reason enough.
I can only answer why I dropped Windows. I wasn’t going to pay a company to force AI spyware onto my system, ignore my commands with every update that negated them, or hold my data hostage if I didn’t jump through their endless hoops; all to claim my data as theirs with their end goal being to charge me more money for accessing what is supposed to be mine in the first place!
This. The minute I figure out how to gracefully migrate my VMs off of Hyper-V I’m done with it. My kids’ machines would already be migrated if they weren’t Roblox enjoyers.
There are tools for converting Hyper-V drives to vmdks that everything can read. Then just fire up new kvm instances and load the disk images.
For Roblox, there’s Sober. It works (IIRC) by putting the android version of Roblox in a container and passing the appropriate system calls to the Linux machine. It doesn’t need to worry about issues with Roblox’s Byfron anticheat since Byfron hasn’t been implemented there (yet).
Roblox has anti-cheat? Lol
Honest question: can Roblox be played via Steam in a Linux pc?
It does look like Roblox is trying to kill the Linux workarounds, though. But to me that’s a reason to drop Roblox, not Linux.
It does look like Roblox is trying to kill the Linux workarounds, though.
This has been the big issue. I’m confident I can tinker something into working, either with Sober as @osbo9991@lemmy.world said or with enough fighting with Lutris/Proton/Wine for today But when the developers are actively working to prevent it. it’s a hard sell when we already have the Windows install and it’s already working, particularly for something they’ll (nominally) outgrow in a few more years.
I don’t think there is a Steam entry for the game, but you can install it with Lutris, which does the setup for you. I don’t actually play the game, so I can’t speak much more about it.
Pretty much this for me too, only I already switched in 2002. It really wasn’t that hard leaving windows behind, even back then
There are a few different factors. I think the biggest is that the lifecycle for windows 10 is ending. Microsoft is pushing the upgrade, but 11 has Recall which is essentially AI spyware. Many folks are trying to push Linux instead of upgrading when support is fully cut off
Windows 10 is no longer receiving security updates
Not all machines that ran W10 are capable of running W11
W11 is full of AI integration, always-on data collection, and other no-sell bloatware
Linux is easier to use than ever and free
Windows 10 is no longer receiving security updates
Windows 10 is no longer receiving security updates
I thought it was until October?
W11 is full of AI integration, always-on data collection, and other no-sell bloatware
Windows 10 is the exact same BS, but 10% less in your face AI. Have people really been frog boiled this badly?
Much of that dubious functionality can be turned off in Win10. Not so in AI heavy Win11
I certainly was pre-Steam Deck, religiously looking after every Windows update for how I’d have to debloat the thing. After seeing firsthand how easy the SD was, I figured even my dumb ass can manage to search for instructions. Laptop is on Nobara now. Sometimes I have problems, but they’re rarer than they were in Windows and an easy search has solved them all so far.
Linux is free? I think you need to have a talk with the folks over at IBM about RHEL or the folks over at EQT about SLES
Even the companies behind paid distros tend to release free versions. What they’re really charging for is support.
That doesn’t feel like the case for RHEL anymore. See my post here: https://lemmy.ca/post/47329016/17562982
Free as in freedom. But also free as in cost for most PC use cases. Red Hat and SUSE are mostly selling enterprise services.
You took a joking jab at red hat and suse a bit too seriously. But let me address at least the red hat portion of it.
IBM changed took away the Debian equivalent of RedHat: CentOS. They now have CentOS stream which is not what CentOS was – the free and open RHEL byte for byte compatible operating system. Arguably at the time, yes, I would agree with you – they were just selling enterprise services. But that’s not what it is anymore. They took away the stability of CentOS and had everyone migrate to RHEL or away. There were talks at the time that they were violating the linux license at the time. However, it was argued that they weren’t. Because they provide the source code for enterprise license customers, they did not violate the license. HOWEVER, they were cancelling enterprise licenses of people who were taking the source code to make RockyLinux and all the the other distros that came up to replace what CentOS was.
While yes, you have the freedom to do with the source code as you’d like when you have access to it, IBM is violating the spirit of what that means by throwing access to it behind an enterprise license.
Well this ain’t true lmao. Win 11 is almost the same as 10. I have 0 “ai integration” on my PC. I don’t even have cloud files on one drive. And the most “bloatware” are just windows apps like calendar or contacts etc which can just be uninstalled.
Linux is also not easier to use than ever, you still need to Google every day basic functions like installing programs etc and you still have to learn terminal commands. Like cool you feel that way about windows I guess but you’re spreading misinformation
The first time you try Linux, you will have to take a little time to learn something that is new and unfamiliar to you. But this was true of the first time you tried Windows too.
The point is that it really isn’t hard to learn, and today it absolutely is easier than ever.
You may have disabled copilot, but it installed and integrated into the Win 11 operating system. It takes 1 update to re-enable it without your consent. If there weren’t precedent, that wouldn’t really be a valid argument, but it wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened.
Linux Mint is easier to use out of the box than any version of Windows. It is 100% usable without typing a single terminal command. If you learn apt-get, it extends functionality and is basically 1 command, which again, is optional.
To install applications it’s as simple as opening Software Manager, selecting the app, and installing. The app store is better than whatever windows has installed by a country mile.
On a fresh install it has a full libre office suite, all of the basic apps like calculator, and many others. If you don’t want that, it can be prevented at installation.
It is inherently more secure, and updates won’t revert settings or install malware like Windows updates.
Major version updates will always support old hardware. There will never be a situation like Windows 11 not supporting older hardware.
The only thing the Windows has over Linux is proprietary apps for a lot of products. For the average and most above average users, that’s irrelevant. There are options for most fields but not all. For most people, life exists in a web browser, and that works better on Linux.
Linux Mint is easier to use out of the box than any version of Windows.
How so? Definitely isn’t if you have an Nvidia GPU.
Actually, it is. Anecdotally, I’ve never had an issue with my Nvidia card playing any games. Nvidia is certainly not as good as AMD, but it’s not as bad as the memes make it seem. In the past year they’ve worked more with Linux developers to provide better drivers. Not perfect, but it’s at least stable.
Installing the Nvidia drivers on Linux isn’t anymore difficult than it is on Windows.
If you haven’t used Linux within the last at couple of two years, then your experience is outdated and not relevant. There have been huge QoL improvements over that time.
And the most “bloatware” are just windows apps
The Windows 11 Pro edition at my work had an entry for Whatsapp in the start menu after a fresh install…
This “Pro” edition had a popup ad for one of Microsoft’s games pushed as a notification. Literally a popup ad for a game coming from the Professional edition of Windows. Something my company paid extra for.
I have 0 “ai integration” on my PC.
I’m constantly playing wack-a-mole with Copilot. It’s even in Notepad by default…
Yeah, there is a reason my home PCs are all Linux Mint.
The Windows 11 Pro edition at my work had an entry for Whatsapp in the start menu after a fresh install…
That’s just a stub, an “ad”. Whatsapp isn’t installed. You can just right click and delete that shortcut.
I’m constantly playing wack-a-mole with Copilot.
Why do you not want copilot to even exist on your computer?
Idk why you have those issues. I disable copilot. I disable all taskbar add-ons, I disable and remove all notifications on the bottom right corner. I disable one drive. I have received 0 pop up ads for the entirety of windows 11 at home and at my full-time job. My wife’s computer is the same way as mine and she knows way less about to do anything but open steam and play some games.
Needing to go through and disable all the stuff sounds like managing bloat to me, no?
I’m personally angry that we have ads on the default minesweeper and solitaire. Gross
No. These are options you select when first installing windows.
There is no way to install windows fresh, have all of those items disabled, and have all of the bloat uninstalled without creating a custom image.
The problem is that Microsoft doesn’t honor your wishes. There is no button you can click that says, “opt me out of all AI and cloud data features.” You can disable apps, buttons, and tracking today, but there will be new ones out tomorrow. And there may be a period of weeks or months of them sucking your data up before you figure out what they’re tracking and how to shut it down.
Like cool you feel that way about windows I guess but you’re spreading misinformation
Not to mention doesn’t play nicely with GPUs made by the overwhelming market leader, nvidia.
Linux Mint is exactly as easy to use as Windows, if not easier. In Windows you also needed to google every day basic functions, but I guess for you personally that was so long ago that you don’t remember. On Windows you also need to use the terminal for some things, like removing some of their bloatware (xbox bullshit, for example).
There are some specific points I kind of agree with you about, but I don’t agree with your general sentiment. Linux is easier to use than ever.
In Windows you also needed to google every day basic functions
You do? Like what?
On Windows you also need to use the terminal for some things, like removing some of their bloatware (xbox bullshit, for example).
Or you can just leave it and not use it, disable it, or delete it from the add or remove apps settings menu.
Why does something simply being there but not used bother you guys so much? I don’t get it - especially when it’s so easy to disable them through the menus they give you.
Uh, he right though. If you think you have to use terminal and google for everything in Linux… that’s just nonsense. Lol
I made the change a couple years ago and Linux runs circles around Windows now and is pretty easy to use.
If you’re happy with windows, use it. I’m not going to waste any brain cycles arguing against someone else’s computer preference. But quit with the terminal and hard to use shit with Linux. That shit is about a decade outdated. I can’t even think of the last time I have needed to use terminal.
I’ll try it again in a few months. My issue is that I make music, I’m not going to trust the jankyness of Linux and windows emulation.
When I try Linux I do it for gaming. My next gpu will be an AMD. maybe I’ll try again then
Does LMMS still exist? There were a few other tools I used back in the day (wasn’t good at it so don’t ask for tips!)
Yeah, that’s still a thing. I’ve been making music on Linux since 2006 and there’s a ton of options now.
I use fl studio and ableton, but mostly fl studio.
I would be very interested in what you think about LMMS. It reminded me somewhat of FL Studio, but like I said I wasn’t really good at it so there may be features you’re lacking.
I have to say, the audio situation used to be a bit of a mess but it has gotten somewhat better.
Is it even Linux if you’re not running four terminal emulators via tmux in single user mode on a 1280x960 screen?
you still need to Google every day basic functions like installing programs etc
To be fair, I had to do that when I tried macOS for a while years back. That is just part of learning to use any new operating system. But after a while, once you understand the basics, you will no longer need to use a reference for the basics. Linux is no different in that regard.
you still have to learn terminal commands
The only time I use the terminal is for things that are just simpler to automate via a command line. Things that I would be using a command line to achieve if I were using Windows/macOS. The kinds of things that I do in Termux on Android.
Only time I use command for windows is when I have to format a drive that doesn’t show up in disk management. On Linux I had to use terminal so much. And not to mention the god awful support for gpus. My latest headache was only one display of two would work and the other would be back unless I did a mirror, or turn down my refresh rate to 60 (both are 180hz) Oh it made me so mad lol. I give Linux an honest try at least once a year but this year it just completely fucked up a separate hard drive that has windows. Idk what happened but I put bazzite on an isolated 1tb drive, and it completely deleted my windows boot loader. I had no choice but to reformat, lost everything. Not a huge deal to some but as a music producer it was a huge huge loss. (Now I am going to just run off external drives for thet)
You absolutely didn’t have to format your windows drive to fix the missing bootloader issue. That’s like burning down your house because you lost your keys.
I tried for 3 days to fix it lol. Nothing worked. Even windows recovery didn’t do anything
It’s not an uncommon issue to happen when setting up a dual boot system. The easiest fix is to just add windows to the GRUB bootloader.
Unless your drive was encrypted using bitlocker, you could have just mounted it in Linux and recovered your data that way.
Not a huge deal to some but as a music producer it was a huge huge loss. (Now I am going to just run off external drives for thet)
Oof, regardless of OS, it is smart to keep your important files off of your OS drive. Yeah, an external drive is one way to do that.
Linux and Windows are probably just equally as difficult to use to the average user. Might as well go Linux with less obnoxious features like copilot and recall. My dad was a Windows user for many many years, but he still knew zilch about how to solve problems in Windows. The average user would need to google anyway, no matter which OS.
And with the right distro (Linux Mint for example) you would have zero interactions with the terminal. Everything’s done via the GUI, just like Windows.
I’ve had to interact with weird things in Windows lately which I had to google up like ‘open the run programs and type in srvcmngmt.msc’ or whatever that was again. Something that apparently couldn’t have been done via the GUI. Great job!
For the record I am still mainly a Windows user.
Yeah you’re probably right. I grew up with windows and had to learn Linux around windows 10 era and it was a shitty time. I just installed Linux on a second drive but it destroyed my windows boot loader with some other terminal only bootloader thing that didn’t work. Last time I try Linux (side boot) for good. I lost so much work.
If it’s any comfort to you (heh), a Linux user trying to install Windows on a second drive would probably see its bootloader ruined by Windows as well.
That’s why I don’t do dualboots. Screw it.
For me it’s because it seems evident that Microsoft wants Windows to be saas and here’s the thing: I don’t like Windows that much. For over 20 years now, I’ve preferred Linux for server stuff and Mac for daily driver stuff, I’ve only tolerated Windows, mainly for gaming.
Since Windows 7 died (I skipped 8 altogether and reluctantly have been dealing with 10 with lots of hacks to keep it locked down), I have only been barely tolerating it - and games were the sole reason.
Well, Proton has now obliterated that, conveniently right as Microsoft has decided that what people REALLY need is for them to be 100% shit. I refuse to install 11. So I’m out.
Windows 10 is about to be end-of-life this October. You probably think ‘just update your OS to Windows 11’, but many computers are deemed unfit for Windows 11 by Microsoft.
In order to move on to Windows 11, many people, and I do really mean a ridiculously large amount of people would need to buy a new computer or laptop. In the meantime their old systems are still fit for everyday use, so there is quite a lot of e-waste coming up.
Instead of just dumping the old computers you can just put Linux on them and continue using them. Linux costs nothing, just time. So if you don’t have specialized software which absolutely must have Windows, you might as well just switch to Linux and keep using your old systems which are still perfectly fine for your everyday needs.
My old gaming laptop that I still use right now is from 2018. It does have the TPM 2.0 chip that Windows 11 requires, but its CPU is like just one generation too old for it. So, what do I do? When Windows 10 stops getting its updates, throw it away? Naw man, Linux will work. You can even game on Linux just fine as the Steam Deck has proven already, so I’ll just switch my sweet laptop over to Linux and continue using it as usual.
It’s still kinda crazy to me that a seventh gen i5 (still very capable for general use) and i7 (still a very good processor for pretty much everything) are considered “incompatible” with Windows 11.
Good thing the OS is trash though. My laptop supports it but I’ll be damned if I upgrade. Just switched to Linux as my main OS with Windows running on a separate drive for shit anticheat games I can’t quit.
So, what do I do? When Windows 10 stops getting its updates, throw it away?
Windows 10 won’t just stop working in October. As long as you’re not an idiot you can safely use Windows 10 PCs connected to the internet for the next decade.
Microsoft have also announced ways to get extended updates to it til Oct 2026 too btw.
you can safely use Windows 10 PCs connected to the internet for the next decade.
Do not, absolutely do not, hook an OS that is no longer receiving security updates to the internet. Out-of-date machines can get pwned simply by being on a network or loading a website’s ad, no user interaction required. Vulnerabilities are discovered, never patched, and thereafter every script kiddy can get into the old machines with little effort.
Because Microsoft insists on treating its users with contempt.
With Linux, you don’t need to replace your computer if it is capable of running Windows 10. For many, hardware upgrades are a requirement if they wish to stick with Microsoft. Installing a Linux distro will extend the life cycle of an older machine, at no cost.
That’s too much value at zero personal cost to ignore.
